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Post by julesd68 on Oct 20, 2022 10:06:00 GMT
What's the appeal of vintage audio gear today?
Do you still buy it? Is it worth the inflated prices? Can it compete with today's gear?
An interesting debate here -
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Post by speedysteve on Oct 20, 2022 10:41:21 GMT
Pair of Vitavox S2 compression drivers, circa 1950s to 60s. Alnico magnets of course. 1.5" throat. Fully refurbed by Vitavox in Bristol with latest diaphragms. They are available new, and are used in the Vox Olympians and Vitavox own speakers. New prices 😳
Pair of JBL2482, 2" throat, 4" diaphragm compression drivers, 1970s. Phenolic diaphragms. Alinco mags.
Absolute classic compression drivers.
When I bought them they were £ for £ the best I could get / afford, and suited my desired crossover points, horn design and ears. I auditioned a fair few.
The frequencies these cover are the ears most sensitive / critical range.
Imperitive to get this right.
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Post by HD Music & Test on Oct 20, 2022 10:43:11 GMT
Nostalgia, VU meters & Sily brig drivers, "I remember the best sound I listened was with A + B + C at the Ramarda hotel in 1996 and it was amazing etc" It is simply what strikes a chord with various people nothing more. Me personally I'm guilty of a part of this , however when you listen to a sound which is intrinsically correct on all levels there no going back. Though I may have taken lots of Wadia's to a whole new level
Mind you for some reason BIG horns have this effect on grown men as well, I have a nice week away in Porto, and even in the bloody hotel we were staying in was a pair of the top Avant Guard three barrelled sonic weapons either side of the grand piano & for Jazz cats.....time for a sharp exit
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Post by MartinT on Oct 20, 2022 10:56:11 GMT
Infinity IRS mk.V speakers from 1988. Perhaps not the last word in detail these days, but I've never heard better scale from any other speakers. Sheer effortless splendour.
You need a BIG room to accommodate these bad boys.
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Post by julesd68 on Oct 20, 2022 11:27:39 GMT
I've got a Cyrus 1.
Never used it though. Bought purely for nostalgia and I love the shoe box design; it reminds me of happy days auditioning amps when I first got into hifi in the early 80's. Unlikely I'll ever need a second system - I will display it on a shelf or something in future to enjoy its aesthetics.
More recently I was actually using a serious bit of vintage kit - my MRM Source turntable that now resides in a box. Teamed with a modern tonearm and cart, it delivered exceptionally musical and pleasing results. I think it's fair to say it's the only vintage bit of kit I have owned that gave me the performance I was looking for today. However, buying it in the first place was certainly nostalgia related - I lusted after it having seen it on pride of place display at The Music Room in Manchester, a truly wonderful dealer of the day. Only took me around 40 years to get one!
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Post by ChrisB on Oct 20, 2022 11:27:50 GMT
There are loads of reasons, I'm sure. Not least must be what Tony touched on but also, folks buying stuff they couldn't afford when it was current. Call it a mid-life crisis then. Also, a lot of modern gear is utterly soulless and devoid of life and character (I'm talking about aesthetics and ergonomics here). The same is true for cars, cameras and all sorts of other commodities.
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Post by ant on Oct 20, 2022 13:56:40 GMT
The only vintage stuff that i think is really worth looking at are turntables in the main. Certain amps can be good, (quad 306, 405, spring to mind, there are plenty of others) but will require at least a good poke around inside and caps replacing. In the case of turntables, engineering is engineering. a well engineered deck from 'back in the day' is still well engineered now. Carts are an absolute minefield as the suspension either turns to mush or hardens depending on the conditions it has been stored in, these days i dont buy old carts at all even to retip. Electronics has moved on in leaps and bounds over the last 50 years, engineering parctice has not because it was right already. A tolerance is a tolerance wether it was done by a bloke with a machine or a cnc machine. Arms are the same, but matching a modern cart can be more problematic as most are mid compliance these days and older stuff requires high or low depending on its age. There are workarounds to these problems.
But the crux is that people have nostalgia for the big meters and the 'look'
Those willing to put the work into old stuff can reap the rewards, because the industry has stagnated since the 80s. But it aint cheap. There isn't a demand for innovation so speakers, amps and sources are regurgitated every few years with some marketing gobbledygook and a fresh coat of paint. It is there if you go looking, but mass market stuff isnt where it is unless it is a flagship product costing tens of thousands.
Look at the new leak stuff and those new missions that look like old missions for the nostalgia factor
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Post by HD Music & Test on Oct 20, 2022 14:18:22 GMT
Also, a lot of modern gear is utterly soulless and devoid of life and character (I'm talking about aesthetics and ergonomics here). The same is true for cars, cameras and all sorts of other commodities. Absolutely spot on Chris
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Post by Slinger on Oct 20, 2022 14:29:34 GMT
I suppose " because it looks bloody gorgeous compared to much of the anodyne mainstream stuff presented to us nowadays" is a bit too simplistic? Yes, OK, it's personal taste, I know. I happen to think that stuff like the Technics kit below is æsthetically pleasing. If money were no object, and I mean SERIOUSLY no object, I'd probably end up with an aircraft hangar of the stuff, just to "enjoy". I might even plug some of it in, so I get the full " glowing VU meters" effect. Joking aside, I would be very interested to hear how it sounds in a properly set up system.
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Post by speedysteve on Oct 20, 2022 20:34:09 GMT
Forgot about the SP-10 and Fidelity Research FR64s tonearm😂
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Post by brettj on Oct 20, 2022 20:51:32 GMT
I've been through my mid life crisis (according to she). Bought Mission speakers, £3/m speaker cable and a Nakamichi tape deck 20 years ago. I silently disagree.
Purchases now are for my 'rest of life' enjoyment (while I still have some £ to play with).
When I do set up my second system, it will include a vintage amp. I have a soft spot for my A&R A60, or my first real amp, a Plinius pre/power. But maybe not as good sounding as I remember. Will have to buy a decent (old) turntable, and use either my Mission 780 or an old pair of Audax A200 speakers. Just need a shed to put it in.
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Post by ajski2fly on Oct 21, 2022 8:37:57 GMT
I think if you know what was good back in the day then as long as it is still reliable and not too hard or expensive if a repair becomes necessary then there is some very good HiFi gear to be had, which can easily match or excel new gear priced 5 to 10 times more.
Some will argue that recent and newly designed hifi will be better as components are better manufactured with tighter tolerances, this may be true in some cases, but with respect to older electronics, from my understanding, they can be as good or better than new if the original design was done taking tolerances into account at that time. Also I have been told by a couple of designers that absolute accuracy in audio electronics can lead to a rather dry or un-engaging sound.
Older good equipment examples that could be considered are below, of course there are many others as well.
Krell KSA series amps, or Mark Levisinson for example offer extremely good hi-end audio for £1-3K, to purchase an equivalent new amp would be anything from £10K to £30K(or more). There are some lovely Pioneer, Sansui, and Technics amplifiers from the late 70's and 80's that were highly sort after in there day. Quad amps are highly regarded and are worth considering if you like how they sound.
I have been told to be careful with amps using FET and mossFET, often the particular ones used are no longer available and if they fail can become unrepairable as a near alternative is not available.
So it is always worth checking out with a repairer if what you are considering to purchase is currently repairable, and possibly considering buying difficult to get components up front if you intend to keep it long term.
Current new high end CD players are often well over £5K, but a Meridian 507 or 508 from the late 80's on can be found for around £1K and will offer as good an audio rendition as many h-end CDPs. Just make sure you buy a replacement CD transport mech as back up if you go for one, they are know to fail due to grease hardening in the mechanism although often a good clean and re-grease can sort if out. You could easily spend 4-5 times the price of a Meridian CDP on a new CDP to get as good a result.
There are some very, very good speakers out there to be had, for example a pair of Impluse H2's will put most speakers to shame and all for £1-1.5K, if you want to improve them, a simple tweak with resistor to the crossover can remove a slight mid-range frequency drop off at around 500hz. There are great Tannoy's, KEF's and some Mordant Shorts are excellent to name a few. Even more recent speaker like a pair of Wilson Benesch ARCs, Vectors, ACTs that are over 10 years old will easily exceed most peoples expectations and will last for years, and can be purchased for very cost effective sums.
There is a vast selection of older used and loved for turntables to choose from, along with arms, and once again can be great VFM. In my experience here the key thing here is the ability to still get bearings, motors, idler wheels and belts(if belt driven), Direct Drive TTs can offer electronic challenges. IMO if a TT is still popular and parts, OEM or otherwise, are available then generally it is worth considering if it meets your pocket. Be careful with arms, bearings can be tricky to replace and good servicing can be difficult to find.
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Post by julesd68 on Oct 21, 2022 13:50:05 GMT
One thing that puts me off vintage amps is servicing costs nowadays which you have to factor in. Then there's the hassle and expense of getting the amp to the engineer as well ...
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Post by HD Music & Test on Oct 21, 2022 14:26:19 GMT
It's like old naim Joolz, its just puts me off music comepletely, even when refurbished, it still presents one of the most effective methods of non invasive ear wax removal known to man even above Chord amps and WB speakers
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Post by nicholas on Oct 21, 2022 14:32:59 GMT
Posted in error
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Post by Mr Whippy on Oct 22, 2022 21:08:39 GMT
I've got tons of it! Couple of weeks ago I got a Linn Axis without arm and cover and faulty. Also a Thorens 160 without lid and motor and varnished (not very good) plinth. I got it as it had an Oracle mat which no one seemed to recognize. The outer platter was chrome plated as well. A few weeks before I got a Syrinx PU2 arm. That had no cartridge carrier but got one from Audio Origami. Always fancied one. Mostly it's nostalgia. Still fancy an Audio Research SP8, just for the look of it.
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Post by ChrisB on Oct 22, 2022 21:53:21 GMT
Still fancy an Audio Research SP8, just for the look of it. I bought mine in 1991 and still use it.
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Post by Mr Whippy on Oct 23, 2022 9:03:34 GMT
Still fancy an Audio Research SP8, just for the look of it. I bought mine in 1991 and still use it. It looks so classic and would be a joy to use, I imagine. Years ago a Hong Kong seller on eBay used to sell the chassis. I was always going to get one but never got round to it.
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Post by ChrisB on Oct 23, 2022 9:34:24 GMT
It's ergonomic perfection.
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Post by robbiegong on Oct 24, 2022 21:17:18 GMT
I would not be without my vintage Technics SP10 Mk2, Find it to be the perfect platform / foundation for playing vinyl and letting the cart / arm combo shine - totally neutral, metronomic timing, battleship build, a truly professional turntable.
My Pioneer PD-91 is why I will never get rid of my fave cd's collection. Every time I rest it, due to never ending vinyl front end addiction, the rare moment I decide to give it a look in, for whatever reason, ie: preserving cart life, is when it ends up in use for a very long time, relegating the tt for a while, as I am reminded how musically satisfying this beautiful machine is. It not only looks fabulous IMO, importantly it plays 'music', and moves me every session. Fail it may and I'll cry, but if at all possible, it will always remain in situe, on its shelf, as a key part of my set-up, that is going nowhere.
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