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Post by John on Sept 16, 2022 14:08:24 GMT
Worth a watch as a balanced talk
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 16, 2022 17:22:04 GMT
To be fair to hifi retailers, I can't remember the last time I was made to feel uncomfortable. Quite the opposite actually when helping a friend audition gear at Audio Counsel and Richer Sounds a few months back. Most realise that this old school approach means they wouldn't survive very long in a tricky retail market for dealers.
The points he makes about the new breed of internet forum Inverted Snob are generally fair enough I think.
However, personally I'm not sure about the following statement -
"If something is of very poor value, people will just stop buying it"
Beats headphones anyone?
Value is very subjective too. I would say a new Linn LP12 does not represent great VFM for me and if I was in the market for a deck at that price point, I would likely look elsewhere. But they will continue to sell due to perceived brand value and loyal fans. Yes, that's my subjective opinion.
I would wholeheartedly agree with his views on intolerance.
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Post by Slinger on Sept 16, 2022 17:35:13 GMT
D'you want Speakers? D'you want rumble filters? D'you want a bag on your head...?" Any old excuse to play this one will do.   |
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Post by wannarock2 on Sept 16, 2022 17:50:26 GMT
These still exist?  |
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Post by MartinT on Sept 16, 2022 19:08:38 GMT
We've all come across them, I agree. I don't like snobs or inverted snobs. However, the skin grows thicker with age and experience. I no longer feel compelled to justify my hi-fi purchases and, as I've said before, there are precious few people who would care.
What I have always loved is finding something that I can afford that gives me great pleasure. I don't lust after £250k hi-fi systems any more than I lust after a Ferrari. I truly love having built my relatively expensive, but nowhere near top price, system over the years and, in the same way, I have a mid-priced sports coupe that I have modified and made my own, something quite unique among cars. I try to remember that I started out with modest home-built hi-fi and an Austin Mini 850 when that was all I could afford, and I loved those things back then.
Snobbery is not a nice attribute but I find inverted snobbery even worse. At any level, buying things to enjoy them is admirable. Buying things for appearances sake just shows your inability to enjoy and value anything. What's that about knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing?
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Post by brettj on Sept 17, 2022 9:36:43 GMT
Whenever I go into a dealer's shop, I'm looked down upon.
Then again, I'm not dressed up.
And they suspect I don't know anything, and won't buy anything.
In a way, they are right.
From my younger days as a purchaser, I learnt to hunt a deal.
I haven't bought from a dealer since 2004, as they seldom offer deals.
Oh no. Hang on. My ifi bluetooth zen thing was from a dealer via email.
He didn't frown down at me though. And we haggled a bit ("Come on Big Nose, let's haggle")
Most snobbery audio related I come across is online.
And I either ignore, or at times quip with them.
In the end, it makes me retreat even further.
Better to stick with the people I like.
I don't lust after an expensive system either.
In the late 80s and through the 90s I kept out of stereo and record shops.
Couldn't afford anything, with family/low wages/mortgage.
Really enjoy what I've built, and how I've built it; a mostly inexpensive system.
And snobs? I won't be having a beer with 'em...
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Post by HD Music & Test on Sept 17, 2022 11:14:40 GMT
This is not just akin to audio but pretty much all products that have what are discribed as 'high end' and its not just a case of keeping up with the Jones's any more. If I am visiting another region Anne & myself will pop into other audio shops to see how they operate, on the whole in the UK most respectable audio retailers are down to earth, civiland genuinely helpful. Very few still fall into the above sketch catagory (Thankfully) Although I have occassioned a Gen Z look at me with distain with that 'Oh really' look when asking about a specific product in their outlet. I just let them run through their patter and politely ask a very pertant question, it then goes quiet for a few moments, while some do and pop off to find the answer, one or two try to wing it, then I have some fun. A few years one particular sales person suggested 'I was looking in the wrong section and that low-fi was over in the far right hand corner', I thnaked him for his input browsed a bit longer and left. We returned a week as the distribution company, his face was a picture!
Conversely we do have clients that you can demonstrate 'less brand awareness products' to and they will openly admit they prefer that sound. HOWEVER its doesn't display badge 'x' or 'y' so the interest subsides.
Such is the fickle fate of marketing spin and influencers.
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Post by Slinger on Sept 17, 2022 12:01:55 GMT
I'm never going to have the money for a " high-cost / high-end" system, so that conundrum (Diamond-studded DAC? Hand-carved unobtanium matching cases?) doesn't occur. Yes, I'd like a bit more disposable income, but one cuts one's cloth according to one's means, and I bet I've had more fun mixing and matching used kit in my second system than I would have had simply laying down a wad of cash and having the McIntosh " collection" (just as a " for instance". Other expensive hifi brands are available) delivered to my door and set up for me. Mind you, I do love those big meters, and that seductive blue glow. It's all about the music. |
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Post by MartinT on Sept 17, 2022 12:38:25 GMT
I bet I've had more fun mixing and matching used kit in my second system than I would have had simply laying down a wad of cash and having the McIntosh " collection" I bet you have, too. And no, I wouldn't want the McIntosh gear as that brand to me is more about ownership bling than sound quality. |
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Post by Slinger on Sept 17, 2022 12:43:40 GMT
I bet I've had more fun mixing and matching used kit in my second system than I would have had simply laying down a wad of cash and having the McIntosh " collection" I bet you have, too. And no, I wouldn't want the McIntosh gear as that brand to me is more about ownership bling than sound quality. I must be honest, I do love the look of McIntosh gear, and were I suddenly the recipient of a bequest from an unknown relative who had recently passed (The Queen? Surely not?) I'd audition it, but whether it lived in my new house would depend on the sound, not the looks. |
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 17, 2022 12:50:40 GMT
I can imagine the tricky thing with really high end / expensive audio is sorting out the 'jewellery' and bling from the gear that actually delivers, but with law of diminishing returns it can't be easy getting what one imagines is the best sound per pound.
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Post by MartinT on Sept 17, 2022 12:57:50 GMT
I like when a component looks fab as a bonus, but I must admit that my recent three purchases, the Gustard DAC and DDC and the Sonore streamer, are all 'plain jane' and, even worse, the Sonore is black!
At least my speakers look good.
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Post by petea on Sept 17, 2022 12:59:08 GMT
I bet you have, too. And no, I wouldn't want the McIntosh gear as that brand to me is more about ownership bling than sound quality. I must be honest, I do love the look of McIntosh gear, and were I suddenly the recipient of a bequest from an unknown relative who had recently passed (The Queen? Surely not?) I'd audition it, but whether it lived in my new house would depend on the sound, not the looks. You might be able to afford a McIntosh room, plus a few others though! Why choose?!  |
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Post by Slinger on Sept 17, 2022 13:07:11 GMT
I must be honest, I do love the look of McIntosh gear, and were I suddenly the recipient of a bequest from an unknown relative who had recently passed (The Queen? Surely not?) I'd audition it, but whether it lived in my new house would depend on the sound, not the looks. You might be able to afford a McIntosh room, plus a few others though! Why choose?! Cos I'd only ever be in the one where the music sounded the best. I'd want two rooms for the recording studio as well, don't forget. Hmmm. Maybe 3, if I'm going to use an orchestral string section... |
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 17, 2022 15:37:20 GMT
I like when a component looks fab as a bonus, but I must admit that my recent three purchases, the Gustard DAC and DDC and the Sonore streamer, are all 'plain jane' and, even worse, the Sonore is black! At least my speakers look good. I must admit that I don't mind stark looking electronics at all, in fact I like them to be discreet. Speakers however are also a piece of furniture so I much prefer them to have some style too. |
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NAS📶 > Gustard x26p DAC > Benchmark LA4 Pre-Amp > NAD M22-V2 Amplifier > Revel F228Be Speakers
