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Post by John on Apr 7, 2021 19:34:51 GMT
A important question has been raised by Jerry about the differences we strive to create and was wondering what peoples thoughts are on this.
For me several different influences towards sound
My biggest influence would be live music I been to nearly 3000 concerts so this has played a sub conscious part of what I like
Next would hearing my friends systems and hearing how they have progressed over the years.
I used to pay attention to reviews but they have little real value for me these days
Some of my growth is the bit of it which feels like it out of control. That bit of how might I get a better sound. I can be still for a while but then sooner or latter I want the next buzz of discovery and then the cycle will repeat. I do not have as bad as some my friends but I admit it is around.
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Post by John on Apr 7, 2021 19:37:30 GMT
When I discovered new sounds I start to value that part of the sound and can always hear when it not their. This is why I do not try equipment I cannot afford as would find a way to get if if I had to suffer for a while so I rather not go through that experience
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Post by julesd68 on Apr 7, 2021 19:44:55 GMT
Instrument tone and timbre is very important to me, particularly in classical music as I've been to so many concerts and have played instruments, but also getting an accurate electric guitar sound is something that is easier said than done IMO.
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Post by julesd68 on Apr 7, 2021 19:46:17 GMT
I do enjoy listening to other people's systems, not in terms of copying but hearing what they prioritize in their playback.
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Post by jandl100 on Apr 7, 2021 19:55:37 GMT
I think this is a very interesting subject.
Sorry to have sidetracked your blog thread, John, but the thoughts were largely inspired by it!
I'll probably add a few posts and respond to others rather than try to cover what seems to me to be an enormous subject in one go.
My first thought is that it's just as important to realise what you are NOT trying to achieve as well as what you do want from your system.
For me, personally, things of irrelevance are ultra deep bass and "slam". They just aren't a part of the music that I listen to.
In fact, I deliberately avoid bass significantly below 40hz as it's too intrusive for my Mrs. This is fine by me and I don't feel that I'm missing out.
Large scale "pin you to the wall" dynamics are also not of interest to me.
Taking those sort of requirements away significantly opens up the variety of kit that will "work" in my system. For example, despite the relative inefficiency of my speakers I've quite happily used amps with power output from 8wpc to 1kwpc!
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Post by petea on Apr 7, 2021 20:14:55 GMT
I should have read this first before posting! I'll copy what I wrote here for now and alter it to make it fit!
I mentioned at one point that I had spent an evening with Max Townshend listening to the system he had built (drivers included). Firstly it all looked like it came from a showroom and was beautifully built. The presentation, clarity and range of the system and the way his speakers delivered it was utterly startling and quite beguiling. However, it was not a presentation that I could probably live with every day and it reminded me a bit of listening through headphones as it projected the music to you, or at least just in front of you. Fascinating, but too demanding in a way. I have slowly assembled and tweaked my systems to present the music I like best in a certain way and I like my musicians to be away from me, sort of one the stage behind the line of the speakers as it were. Of course I like to fantasise that the overall sound it is as the artist intended, but I know full well it is probably not; it is how I like it! Even live music or works I have heard live will be impossible for me to reproduce as the context, ambience, company etc will be absent. They might remind me of the event, but they will not (and can not) reproduce it. If it all means that the music I like captures me more and feels more like what I expect then that is closer to what I am looking for I suspect.
I find the projects several of you present very interesting and would very much like to hear them. I appreciate the skill and craft that has gone into their creation as well as the technical background. I am fairly handy myself and have an extensive workshop, but so far have resisted building any audio equipment (optical yes, the odd automaton, but no turntables, arms or speaker systems. Yet!). Okay I have made a couple of small modifications and built / modified the equipment racks, but so far I have enjoyed more combining bits of equipment and seeing how they interact and move me closer to whatever end-point it is that I am moving towards.
Although I do listen to instrumental only music, songs dominate my listening. So vocal delivery is very important to me. I rarely listen to music from the heavier end of the spectrum either rock or full orchestral and so my systems tend not to be able to deliver that scale / range as well and it is not something I miss. I can appreciate your comment about bass, Jerry and that has never been a great imperative for me either, but I did miss it at times and always felt a bit of extra extension would be nice. I'd toyed with the idea of a sub for a while, but was always worried that it would be difficult to integrate and might take something away. Hearing Steve's sub in action made me decide to try though and it proved a success and there are subs now in both the UK and German systems and they add a subtle (most of the time) addition to the overall presentation.
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Post by jandl100 on Apr 7, 2021 20:39:25 GMT
I've heard many systems both in people's homes and at shows, but as far as I can recall only 2 of them made a lasting impression and left me with the feeling that they had an aspect to their sound that I wanted to emulate and have acted as system objectives for me ever since. The first was Tom montesquieu when he had his somewhat modified Quad 57 electrostatic speakers. The sheer clarity and in the room focus of Bryn Terfel singing Vaughan Williams' Songs of Travel was a complete revelation for me. That was perhaps 10 years ago, probably more. And it's only very recently that I feel my own system had come even vaguely close to that. The other was a friend's system fronted by Harbeth P3ESR speakers. Small standmounts that created the purest 3D images and soundstage I have ever heard. I'm fairly sure that a Primaluna valve amp was involved as well. When I revisited a few months later he had 'upgraded' to larger Harbeths and the magic had gone. |
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Post by ant on Apr 7, 2021 21:11:10 GMT
Smooth and clean.
Thats all i want
Cant stand a harsh toppy sound, or a bloated boomy sound, or anything with a midrange squawk. Any of those things drive me crackers
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Post by MartinT on Apr 7, 2021 21:19:36 GMT
What I want above all else is a fantastically clear and communicative midrange. If it doesn't do voice well, it's no good to me.
After that, I want mimicry of real life. A saxophone is an incredible instrument in real life. So are drums, or a piano for that matter. I want my music to sound real.
Finally, and a real bugbear of mine. I don't want my system to sound warm or friendly. I don't want a 'valve' sound or a 'vinyl' sound. I don't want it to be 'analogue'. I don't want horrible colourations in favour of toe-tapping. I want the closest thing to the master tape that it's possible to achieve in my listening room.
Simple statements, very difficult to achieve.
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Post by julesd68 on Apr 7, 2021 21:41:37 GMT
One question here is who knows what a particular master tape sounds like? Many master tapes are monitored on equipment we wouldn't choose for our own systems. It's not something I worry about - I'm more concerned with the music sounding real to my ears based on the instruments that I know well.
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Post by MartinT on Apr 7, 2021 21:45:48 GMT
My experience is that most recordings are very much better than expected. If I can hear all that they have captured then I have the best chance of hearing the original performance - even if artificially mixed.
Like you, I judge real sounds by attending acoustic concerts such as classical music, and knowing what, say, a piano sounds like.
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Post by ant on Apr 7, 2021 22:39:01 GMT
Re what has influenced me, im really not sure. I dont go to many gigs, so ive ended up with a sound i wanted rather than trying to emulate something ive heard.
I like it, others may not
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Post by John on Apr 8, 2021 5:24:02 GMT
I agree with Jules about getting instruments right this is essential for me. I know what a acoustic or electric guitar should sound like. I like full scale with dynamics. This is influenced by the music I listen too. I like depth because I can immerse myself deeper into the music.
Really interesting hearing other thoughts and how individual we all are.
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Post by jandl100 on Apr 8, 2021 5:34:18 GMT
Curiously, as the years go by I listen to less and less vocal music.
Just guessing,but I'd not be surprised if 5% or less of the music I listen to now has any vocals in.
I've not thought of that before!
It certainly seems to largely take away one of the cornerstones of what accuracy and realism is for most audio folks.
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Post by John on Apr 8, 2021 5:47:41 GMT
I reckon for me it is about 50/50
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Post by jandl100 on Apr 8, 2021 5:54:04 GMT
Similarly to my taste in music, my preferences in audio have changed over the years.
It used to be about extracting the maximum clarity and information from a recording, but I've definitely backed away from that now. Both metaphorically and literally.
My favourite seat in a concert hall, as perceived by my Audio system, used to be 4 or 5 rows back from the concert platform. Now I definitely prefer to be towards the rear of the front stalls. Still fairly explicit but more of a blend of sounds, with solo instruments popping out of the texture excitingly!
For me, the master tape is something to be interpreted rather than reproduced exactly.
I think the analogy of seating position in a concert hall is a good one for me.
The master tape puts me in a particular seat. But I might prefer to sit somewhere else! Audio system choices can make that move happen.
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Post by John on Apr 8, 2021 5:58:29 GMT
At concerts I used to be pretty close to the front in my youth over the years I enjoy being close to the mixing desk
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Post by julesd68 on Apr 8, 2021 6:06:18 GMT
Interesting.
I've very rarely paid for expensive seats when going to classical concerts at the likes of the Festival Hall and the Barbican. Which is why some years back I decided to get seats just a few rows back when visiting the acoustically excellent Bridgewater Hall in Manchester. I must say I really enjoyed this more immersive experience where the music has a bit more of a visceral impact the closer one sits. I guess my listening position and volume I listen at try to recreate the impact of live music in some way - I'm looking for that same sense of excitement and immediacy.
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Post by ChrisB on Apr 8, 2021 6:29:36 GMT
For me the turning point was the single realisation that until that moment, I had been pursuing an unattainable goal by trying to recreate the live sound in my home. I resolved to just stop chasing shadows, which was causing frustration and a waste of money, and to be happy with what I have.
Best move I ever made.
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Post by MartinT on Apr 8, 2021 8:02:41 GMT
I like to be around row E in the Festival Hall and love the immersive experience.
I have wildly broadened my tastes in music. There are all sorts of different acts I like listening to these days.
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