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Post by jandl100 on Nov 16, 2020 5:53:46 GMT
Interesting about the washing machine feet, you can get them a bit cheaper on ebay. I've ordered 8 as an extra tool available to fine tune the presentation to my taste. Maybe rocket thrusters at the back and washing machine feet at the front? Who knows.
I should mention that the rocket thrusters are placed on top of the Auralex speaker pads I was already using. Extra wobbly!
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Post by ajski2fly on Nov 16, 2020 6:12:01 GMT
I’m here early too, looking after Harry who has either hurt his back or arthritis is getting to him. Taking him to the vet tomorrow to get him checked out,
Oh the wobbly front my speakers stand on the Hudson rubber rockets onto 40mm oak platforms, I prefer this to them being spiked through the carpet into the floor which is a suspended block and beam, under the underlay there is wood board sat on top of insulation. The Wilson Benesch Vectors are downward firing and carpet just deadens the bass oomph, the oak makes it stronger and more defined.
Happy wobbling
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Post by jandl100 on Nov 16, 2020 6:18:31 GMT
Best wishes for Harry!
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Post by MartinT on Nov 16, 2020 6:28:24 GMT
Hah - couldn't sleep with an hour to go to the alarm. Just gave up and got up early.
Bass perception and measurement rarely agree, it's strange and very much to do with the room and nodes. My bass is well extended and tight, a combination I like. A chap came over recently, to collect an item, and commented that there was bass boom. I thought about it and decided he was wrong, he probably had never heard potent bass before and mistook room shaking for boom.
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Post by ajski2fly on Nov 16, 2020 6:35:09 GMT
Shakey room means boomy bass😂
It’s all those late night reggae parties man. 🌿
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Post by MartinT on Nov 16, 2020 7:34:40 GMT
Nah - boomy means one-note with no definition!
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Post by speedysteve on Nov 16, 2020 19:03:47 GMT
Nah - boomy means one-note with no definition! Most have not heard deep powerful bass. Most speakers rolloff so sharply there's just a hint of it. Saves the trouble of room interaction. I remember Mike getting up to feel if my tapped horns cabs were vibrating during listening to deep stuff. Nope, the bass comes out the cabinets, works on the room, body and ear drums, not on the cabinets🙂
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Post by jandl100 on Nov 17, 2020 17:52:54 GMT
I was struggling with the new rocket thruster sound, too forward and tiring. Although the extra lucidity was wonderful, other things had changed as well and it just wasn't very pleasant to listen to any more.
I guess it's not surprising. After all, I'd carefully honed the tonal balance of my system to how I wanted it.
So a change of preamp (a Vincent active pre hits the spot) and Pow! Tonal happiness regained, whilst retaining the benefits of improved lucidity.
Once again, it's all about synergy.
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Post by MartinT on Nov 17, 2020 18:20:05 GMT
So very true, Jerry.
I make any system changes with trepidation now, not wanting to lose the musical communication I have steadily built up. A return path is kept in hand if I don't like it.
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Post by jandl100 on Nov 17, 2020 20:12:57 GMT
So very true, Jerry. I make any system changes with trepidation now, not wanting to lose the musical communication I have steadily built up. A return path is kept in hand if I don't like it. Yes, but the problem comes when you get gains in some areas that you don't want to give up, but other aspects are an unacceptable step backwards! It's quite rare, but that can be a very frustrating situation.
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Post by MartinT on Nov 17, 2020 20:18:58 GMT
I well remember upgrading from the Caiman SEG to the LKS DAC. Huge upgrade in resolution, dynamics and bass, big step back in low level detail, harshness and musical flow. I'm glad I stuck with it as I regained what I lost but kept the benefits by attending to the rest of the system and modding where it was needed.
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Post by ajski2fly on Nov 20, 2020 11:38:39 GMT
So very true, Jerry. I make any system changes with trepidation now, not wanting to lose the musical communication I have steadily built up. A return path is kept in hand if I don't like it. Yes, but the problem comes when you get gains in some areas that you don't want to give up, but other aspects are an unacceptable step backwards! It's quite rare, but that can be a very frustrating situation. Based on both your comments I decided to undertake more investigations and listening. First I spent quite a bit of time re-reading about speaker set up, even though I have been through various set ups paradigms, and I decided to follow the WASP advice, www.tnt-audio.com/casse/waspe.html , it does not apply just to their speakers. So what I found out was that my speaker position was not quite as optimised as it could be, according to WASP, I needed them slightly further forward 3" and with the restriction of my room moved them closer together by about 4" and centralised them in the room. This brought them just inside the box I had found using the WASP procedure. The biggest change I adopted was to increase the toe in angle quite substantially. I also took quite some time investigating the optimum listening position. Usually I sit 3.4m from the speakers, they are now 2.08m apart, so theory states the optimum sitting position is 1.15 to 1.25 times the distance apart from the speakers. I have settled for 2.08*1.25 which is 2.6m. I mainly do serious listening when Sue is out or at work so where sit in my Ekoness chair then does not really matter. I spent quite some time on toe in alignment, what I found here is exactly as the article says, careful alignment will reward you with a stunning soundstage with great depth and detail across all frequencies. So all this effort resulted into a definite improvement as far as my system sounded. I would recommend any of you who have not paid this level of attention to your set up that you do so, take your time and you will certainly maximise your listening experience. Having done the above I decided to revisit my assessment of the wobbly rockets(Hudson HiFi Bigfoot isolators), washing machine isolators, and speaker spikes onto rubber floor protection. isolators. Starting with the speaker spikes onto rubber floor protection, I noticed some loss in bass and even mid range definition, it is difficult to describe but things became a bit blurred. Next was the washing machine isolators, this was an improvement in definition, but the bass IMO was hardly changed compared to when using speaker spikes onto rubber floor protection. So finally I put the Hudson Bigfoots back and listened to several demanding tracks as before, from Ravi Shankar - Portrait of Genius, Rage Against the Machine - 1st Album, and Eva Cassidy - Nightbird. What is very clear from the Rage Against the Machine tracks is just how clearer and more controlled the thunderous bass now is, it actually sound like a real bass guitar pumping out in the room which I can easily operate form the drumming and guitar. I have played in several amateur bands and I would say that this is realistic to how a band should sound out of a system I have got. The Ravi Shankar is as if the band is sitting in the room, and I can clearly hear nuances on the tablas, sitar and flute. Eva Cassidy "Fields of Gold' carries a sense of purity, her acoustic guitar being very natural to listen to, the electric guitar and acoustic are better separated and their harmonic interplay is easier to hear. The other track, a bluesy number, 'Baby I Love You' is much improved, previously there had been a tendency for the bass lines to muddy the experience, now I can clearly hear all the instruments, the bass is clear and deep but not dominant. In initially using the Hudsons I had experienced what Jerry described on some tracks as a loss of depth in the bass, however I now feel that I have overcome this by carefully addressing speaker set up along with listening position. I hope some of you may find this useful.
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Post by julesd68 on Nov 20, 2020 13:25:15 GMT
Nice report Adrian.
I look forward to when I eventually move house and have the room to move chair and speaker position.
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Post by MartinT on Nov 20, 2020 13:47:56 GMT
Well done on the speaker positioning improvements, Adrian.
What I found, having done my own room, is that the benefits of pinpoint imaging when everything is just right (including having the speakers on Podiums) is that I could widen the soundstage a little. My setup, therefore, forms close to an equilateral triangle between myself and the two speakers. Toe-in for me is optimised when the inside faces of the speakers point directly at me. This will vary depending on speaker design.
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Post by jandl100 on Nov 20, 2020 16:16:17 GMT
With my hybrid-omni (omni above 600hz,side firing below that) I find that speaker positioning can vary a surprising amount before it becomes noticeably audible.
It's more about width of soundstage than anything else. The whole room interaction thing is different compared to front firers.
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alp
Rank: Trio
Posts: 161
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Post by alp on Nov 27, 2020 18:51:07 GMT
A few years ago I bought a set of IsoNode isolation feet and put them under my 804Ns and a granite plinth that sites on spikes into a concrete floor. At the time I did not notice a real difference except that they were wobbly but left them there anyway. Early on in this thread I thought perhaps I should try something a bit stiffer and bought a set of SVS isolation feet. They too were wobbly and also raised the speakers up a few cm. But, very quickly, I realised that the "air" had gone out of the music, the bass was not improved and it was less enjoyable to listen to. I put the Isonodes back and the air and enjoyment came back, so wobbly rules! The SVS feet have since been returned. Since then I have moved speakers a few cm left-right, which makes a surprising difference.
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Post by yorkshireman on Apr 27, 2022 18:07:22 GMT
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, I have my speakers sat on Black Ravioli pads onto the top of the speaker stands (4 per speaker) the Solidsteel stands are filled 3/4 full on each leg, the stands have Track Audio Isolation feet under each leg. Works very well for me.
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Post by MartinT on Apr 27, 2022 18:37:46 GMT
Nice to hear of other solutions. I haven't come across Track Audio isolation feet.
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Post by yorkshireman on Apr 27, 2022 19:18:02 GMT
Nice to hear of other solutions. I haven't come across Track Audio isolation feet. I have this version screwed into the legs of my Solidsteel stands, 3 per stand.
And 8 of these under my equipment rack
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Post by MikeMusic on Apr 27, 2022 20:32:00 GMT
Sorry to resarect an old thread, I have my speakers sat on Black Ravioli pads onto the top of the speaker stands (4 per speaker) the Solidsteel stands are filled 3/4 full on each leg, the stands have Track Audio Isolation feet under each leg. Works very well for me. Resurrect away ! I need to get around to testing the Black Ravioli I have between my E1s and the Townshend stands.
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