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Post by MartinT on Nov 2, 2020 17:52:25 GMT
I'm a big fan of decoupling in general and dislike spikes anywhere in my system. However, decoupling of speakers seems to be less well understood and appreciated. I have Townshend Podiums (and so does Mike) and I know Jerry has an alternative solution for his MBLs.
Here is a great explanation of decoupling from another vendor (Credo), together with his measurements. If you like your speakers but want more from them, this is the way to go.
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Post by wannarock2 on Nov 2, 2020 18:21:57 GMT
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Post by John on Nov 2, 2020 18:23:53 GMT
I have also decoupled in a a different way 🤣
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Post by ajski2fly on Nov 5, 2020 14:35:47 GMT
I have been listening to the youtube video by the "British Audiophile" recently, they are quite interesting and he talks quite a bit of common sense, he says that he was in the audio industry, but I am not sure in what capacity. Any way this video is interesting. A very good audiophile friend had watched it and isolated his amplifier and phono stage, and Cd player, and speaker with what "British Audiophile" recommends and he told me that the overall improvement was a no brainer, especially for about £60 outlay. I have been looking at some quite expensive isolation products but the cost has been putting me off. I had already isolated my amps, so I thought I would have a play with my speaker isolation. I have had the speakers stood on spikes directly on the carpet with the spikes going into the floor. The floor is concrete block and beam construction, with foam insulation on top and then a layer of chip board, so effectively a stiff suspended floor. I found that as the Wilson Benesch Vectors have downward firing ports that placing them on the Oak platforms improved the bass, detail and depth. Prior to the changes below they were stood on the Oak platforms on their spikes onto aluminium spike protectors. 1st Test - This is with some simple rubber speaker floor protectors that are designed to take spikes. This was an improvement, there was definitely more bass, but not as defined as I had hoped for, so room for improvement maybe. 2nd Test - I removed the speaker spikes and placed each speaker on 4 isolation pads, I already had two of them spare, www.amazon.com/Diversitech-MP4-V-Anti-Vibration-Pack/dp/B00BVEMLR4/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=isolation+pads&sr=8-4 , so I cut each in to quarters. The result here was quite a big improvement IMO, bass was more defined, control and had better extension and clarity. This was particularly clear when listening to Paul Simons - 'Boy in a Bubble' from Graceland the bass drum being very impressing with clear extension and decay not anywhere near as evident as before. Ravi Shankar - track 1 off Portrait of Genius has some excellent Indian Tabla drumming and the hollowness of these became more evident with better decay. I also noticed with both these tracks and others that general instrument separation and clarity had improved, so not just the low end frequencies have improved but the focus of mid and upper range as well. So if you fancy a little experiment and see if you can improve what you experience for not much cost I would recommend you have a play.
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Post by MikeMusic on Nov 5, 2020 16:21:58 GMT
I used to be spikes all over
Now isolation for just about everything. RDC cones on the second system which is a half way house (ish)
The Townshend wobbly speaker stands were a big step up on the main system
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Post by ajski2fly on Nov 5, 2020 16:55:19 GMT
I used to be spikes all over Now isolation for just about everything. RDC cones on the second system which is a half way house (ish) The Townshend wobbly speaker stands were a big step up on the main system I am listening to an LP with some great drumming and bass and the improvement in depth and control is quite amazing, it also seems to aid in the feeling of timing/rhythm if that makes sense. I won't be going back to spikes in a hurry.
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Post by MikeMusic on Nov 5, 2020 17:33:27 GMT
Oh so many years ago I improved sound with spikes everywhere Occasionally had speakers on carpet and spikes were always better when going back
The various supports for kit I went through and the Townshend speaker stands were all a big surprise and always better than spikes
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Post by MartinT on Nov 5, 2020 20:56:47 GMT
Its counterintuitive, isn't it? People think that wobbly stands with 'floating' speakers would give poor bass but they haven't thought about the relative mass of cone and cabinet. A forward motion of the cone gives an infinitesimally small rearwards movement of the cabinet. More importantly, all that energy is contained and not driving the room through the floor. The result is incredibly tight and tuneful bass, deeper too.
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Post by MikeMusic on Nov 6, 2020 10:25:09 GMT
I bought into spikes and rigidity and there was an improvement.
One of those 50% of what we believe will be proved wrong in 50 years Just didn't have to wait 50 years
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Post by mansie on Nov 6, 2020 14:53:59 GMT
What would you recommend with standmount bookshelf speakers? Right now my speaker stands on Atacama stands which have rubber gel pads on top but some people recommend bolting the speakers to the stands and filling the pipes of the stand with sand. I could go the other way and add the pads that Adrian suggest. My speaker stands just "float" on the carpet, no spikes.
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Post by julesd68 on Nov 6, 2020 15:13:57 GMT
My Sonus Fabers came with an integral stand with spikes attached. Can't say I've ever felt the need to tinker with them.
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Post by MartinT on Nov 6, 2020 15:14:27 GMT
Have a look at SVS Soundpath and Auralex decoupling products.
I have some SVS feet under the Gale subwoofer in the AV system and they're excellent.
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Post by MikeMusic on Nov 6, 2020 16:24:46 GMT
My Sonus Fabers came with an integral stand with spikes attached. Can't say I've ever felt the need to tinker with them. Speakers been on spikes since around 1985. That's what everyone does/did Only discovered how good the Townshend stands were when I told Tony the Aurums were pretty good but not quite there. In come the Townshend (well they won't work, I thought) The difference was huge
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Post by julesd68 on Nov 6, 2020 17:22:45 GMT
I couldn't contemplate spending 1.5-2k on the wobbly stands - that kind of expenditure would be completely out of balance with the system I have. I would spend that money on a component upgrade if I felt the need which at present I don't thankfully.
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Post by MikeMusic on Nov 6, 2020 17:28:42 GMT
Ebay has them half that price but doesn't have to be Townshend Adrian's way is very much less
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Post by John on Nov 6, 2020 17:49:17 GMT
I would say getting the balance between speakers and the room is one of the best upgrades I think Martin would agree decoupling was one of the best upgrades to our systems regardless of costs
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Post by MartinT on Nov 6, 2020 17:54:20 GMT
Agreed, huge upgrade in sound, and it doesn't have to be expensive. Ask jandl100 about his Auralex pads for his MBLs.
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Post by jandl100 on Nov 6, 2020 18:10:49 GMT
Agreed, huge upgrade in sound, and it doesn't have to be expensive. Ask jandl100 about his Auralex pads for his MBLs. Auralex XL Pro Pads, I think. They sound like nappies for large babies! Extremely lucky with the size - the platforms are 13x19 inches, and my speakers are 11x16, perfect! auralex.com/propad-xl/
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Post by ajski2fly on Nov 7, 2020 15:00:41 GMT
Ebay has them half that price but doesn't have to be Townshend Adrian's way is very much less An update to my Exploration into Isolation, in this case speaker decoupling. So I took the plunge and purchased these through Amazon. www.hudsonhifi.com/collections/sound-isolation/products/hudson-hi-fi-bigfoot-silicone-isolation-feetthey also do smaller blocks. or www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08GLBKRYZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 It certainly has changed the sound from the previous more stiffer blocks. Initially I though it sounded a little odd, and then I realised it was greater separation and definition, meaning that the recording had opened up. There seems to be a wider sound stage and a bigger 3D effect, the drums are easy to distinguish and definitely have some great extension, I can also pick out the bass easier. That is listening to Los Endos on Genesis “A Trick of the Tail”, big drums and bass. Just put on the Ravi Shankar 'Portrait of Genius', I have not heard the tablas sound so realistic, they have much tighter attack as they are hit and the hollowness of the drums is more accurate, and there is a clear decay to them. At the same time the other instruments are better defined, sound as if they are in the room, wonderful. Probably the best £50 I have spent on my Hifi. As stated earlier it does seem counter-intuitive to have slightly wobbly speakers, I have spent 40+ years using rigid spikes being told this was the way, as far as my ears are concerned complete and utter tosh.
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Post by MikeMusic on Nov 7, 2020 15:36:40 GMT
We enter into the new world of wobbly Great VFM Love Los Endos
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