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Post by MikeMusic on Jun 22, 2020 13:54:18 GMT
I assume I'm out of this particular area with my all in one TAD - CD / DAC / Pre
If not I also assume it would have to be a damned good one
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Post by MartinT on Jun 22, 2020 14:03:20 GMT
All digital components have an internal clock, so this thread is about external clocks designed to enhance sound quality.
When you say 'damned good one', I agree but as I have found out it need not be a damned expensive one.
All experiences welcome!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2020 16:20:33 GMT
What i would suggest with all clocking devices (external)is they have the ability to produce a more relaxed, open spatially aware sound with reduction in upper frequncy noise, greater staging both width and depth along with tighter more articulate bass.
BIG Caveat here:- If the system has the ability to show the differences and room environment supports this, very recently I had occasion to listen to a CH precision master clock in a rather nice Pass labs system, when removed it did very little in terms of overall performance despite being very good indeed.Conforming this with another highly regarded clocking device proved to be just as inert in that system!
So either clocking in that system had little effect or both clocks were in fact not working correctly, cabling was very acceptable in the least.
Upshot was said clocks were tried here at home at the difference was quite audible with both without question.
Possibility was the nature of the amplification class 'a' not the brand per say. A significant number systems have demonstrated bigger improvements that I have witnessed the above discribed traits were clearly audible.
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Post by MartinT on Jun 22, 2020 16:31:39 GMT
What i would suggest with all clocking devices (external)is they have the ability to produce a more relaxed, open spatially aware sound with reduction in upper frequncy noise, greater staging both width and depth along with tighter more articulate bass. Thanks. That's very much in line with my experience. Interesting your observations on that other system. Could it be a lack of good grounding arrangements giving it a performance ceiling, preventing the clock from doing any more? |
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Post by MartinT on Jun 22, 2020 16:47:59 GMT
Goodness me, at $25,000 that CH Precision T1 ought to be doing something better than 'very little' on that system!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2020 17:05:29 GMT
Goodness me, at $25,000 that CH Precision T1 ought to be doing something better than 'very little' on that system! I would suggest as hinted at the CH precision clock was not the issue neither was the SE-120, both produced a similar results in that particular system, my observations were simply class 'a' lack of resolution (Compared to other amplification styles) and ability to let those products work their natural abilities. Having listen to both above mentioned devices in other systems with no impingement as manifested by the class 'a' system. As further mentioned in a couple of purely class 'a' valve systems no such issues were experienced either. Further observations regarding a very well respected Gryphon integrated amplifier produced similar results (when using it's own internal dac) the results were marginal at best. However using an separate dac feeding said amplifier via an analogue input did improve matters, but still not in the same way these devices do in most free flowing systems imho Further empirical evidence I would offer here, in times of old when nights were safe to move about in, my first word clock experience (Esoteric/Drawmer) produced the same results in the context of that Esoteric/Custom amplification/Focal Grand Utopia system. Only being surpassed by a G-0Rb rare earth clock which did more of the same again |
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Post by MartinT on Jun 22, 2020 17:45:40 GMT
Indeed, it was the system I was calling into question, not the clock.
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Post by MartinT on Dec 28, 2020 10:57:36 GMT
This is a very good video demonstrating the effects of vibration on clocks. Not just in a master clock, but the clock inside every digital component, such as CD players, DACs and streamers.
If you didn't think that clocked devices need vibration isolation, you do now!
Like all my components, my master clock is on Black Ravioli footers and has a large Schramm weight on top.
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Post by MikeMusic on Dec 28, 2020 14:34:06 GMT
Proof ! That will doubtless be denied by some Vibration Deniers  |
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Post by julesd68 on Dec 28, 2020 14:58:32 GMT
Well it's interesting yes but in terms of what we hear in a hifi system the jury would still be out.
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Post by MartinT on Dec 28, 2020 15:23:27 GMT
Well it's interesting yes but in terms of what we hear in a hifi system the jury would still be out. Without isolation, digital clocked components sound smeared and relatively lacking in resolution. There have been enough corroborative articles and reviews but the proof is in trying it out for yourself, as I always do whenever I can. My most recent experiment was to try a small titanium block glued directly to the OCXO inside its case. Even in spite of all the other isolation I already have, it made an audible improvement. Listening bears out the science. |
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Post by John on Dec 30, 2020 21:01:31 GMT
I am trying out a Mutec MC 3 I had a small issue setting up but is now working fine, just a simple connection issue.
I am inputting via coaxial SPDIF on the Mutec
With the Limetree (LT) this is a nice step up in terms of body, naturalness, depth and detail. Its not subtle either. It is not often you hear me say I am hearing stuff I did not know was there before but yes hearing new to me detail.
With the Bluetooth (BT) receiver. The treble starts going harsh and it lost it focus. I am trying to figure out why now the LT is better to my ears. I was seriously considering selling my LT and just doing everything via the BT receiver. Convenient great with YouTube and I could sell a bit of equipment to finance all of this
So now I will use the BT just with the Topping DAC and YouTube and the Mutec with the LT for files and Spotify.
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Post by user211 on Dec 30, 2020 23:21:02 GMT
Proof ! That will doubtless be denied by some Vibration Deniers Proof that if you use a TI there will be no issue. At least one you could possibly hear. TI - solvers of the vibration issue:D TBH I think you'd have to do much more comprehensive testing than that video to really get to grips with relative performance of oscillator chips WRT vibration. But basically is it really surprising that something that vibrates is in turn affected by vibration? Er... |
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Post by MartinT on Apr 15, 2022 14:32:24 GMT
Useful video on how clocks are synthesised from an internal or incoming master clock.
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Post by brettj on Apr 17, 2022 22:16:47 GMT
I've asked Tony if he can mod my M2Tech HiFace Evo clock.
Footprint is perfect, and I already have it.
Waiting to hear back from him.
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