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Post by MartinT on May 17, 2020 16:35:12 GMT
What's the lowest note in frequency that can be played on a normally tuned bass guitar?
Also, there are some wonderful slide notes played on a bass some way into this excellent song. Would that have been played on a fretless bass?
Jackson Browne - Sergio Leone
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Post by Slinger on May 17, 2020 16:57:52 GMT
On a standard 4-string it would be the low E at 41.2hz. A five string, with the lowest string tuned to "B" it would be 30.8hz
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Post by MartinT on May 17, 2020 17:03:26 GMT
Kevin McCormick plays bass in that song. Any idea what he plays?
Goodness me, the mastering and mixing were done by Bob Ludwig and Bob Clearmountain. No wonder it sounds phenomenal.
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Post by Slinger on May 17, 2020 17:11:58 GMT
Any bass player will probably own a variety of basses, Martin. There's no way to tell without a visual reference precisely what sort of bass it is, but it's definitely a fretless.
Here's a review from 2014 you might like.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 17:29:54 GMT
31hz on a 5 string
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Post by Slinger on May 17, 2020 17:38:30 GMT
I've had a quick look around, and most of the shots I can find have him playing a standard 4-string P-Bass. I did find this one on YouTube (playing with Jackson Browne) where he's playing a fiver, but it's still not a fretless.  |
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Post by MartinT on May 17, 2020 17:51:34 GMT
Thanks for that quote, Paul. It really is a stunning album and I'm glad to read that it's not just me who thinks so.
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Post by speedysteve on May 17, 2020 18:58:10 GMT
That's why 'we' like electronica and church organs |
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Post by user211 on May 17, 2020 19:33:33 GMT
This might interest you Martin.
Lowest note on an acoustic guitar is 82Hz i.e. E2.
But when I recorded myself playing my Gibson SJ200 Super Custom Cutaway with a Rowland digital recorder, then analysed it using a temporal FFT, I found quite a bit of output even down at 20 Hz. And even lower.
That was strumming various cords, not playing E2.
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Post by MartinT on May 17, 2020 20:13:22 GMT
Yes, I also think that there are some very deep fundamentals coming from guitars, which is part of the reason why I asked that question. Some of the lowest sliding notes McCormick plays are very deep and feel like 31Hz, so maybe he's using a 5-string fretless bass? There are also percussive moments during the track that load up the air in a very realistic fashion.
I'll run my spectrum analyser app and see if I can identify the frequency of the lowest notes played.
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Post by user211 on May 17, 2020 21:01:53 GMT
In the case of a big acoustic like mine the lower frequencies must be coming from the chassis of the guitar.
For an amplified electric bass I'd guess it's quite a different set of affairs. There's no huge resonating chassis just hardwood and while it will give a bass a certain tone I don't think it'll have quite the same pronounced effect on output below the fundamental frequency of a particular bass note.
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Post by MartinT on May 18, 2020 15:30:39 GMT
The lowest notes are not as deep as they sound, but they are very powerful. They mostly fall in the 30-50Hz range although it's hard to get a consistent reading.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2020 15:46:11 GMT
My word Martin FFT bin size 4096 eek  Most so called low bass is in fact in the lower mid bass / just above sub bass region 30Hz, its the presence band, John and myself remember those Dio/Sabs concerts from the early 80's now that was loud all chest punching and body moving bass. Think the Hacienda club in Manchester in the mid 90's all 18 and 21" drivers and 5-8Kw of power, but not much real chewy bass, lots of Gorilla chest pounding stuff but not much gut wrenching truly earthquake bass. Electronica bass is one of the hardest to replicate due to it doesn't actually exist   . Well not really its man made nothing natural like that is actually in nature except maybe an Elephant call or a Blue whale cry, no that is low and the sound-waves travels for miles. For some rather nasty knarly electronic bass, try Ozric tentacles, Holohedron /Pixel dream/ Tight spin from the Hidden step 2001 (thanks Ju) now that does sub 30 no problem its tight, hard punchy and pop a doodle tastic mate. Just make sure your neighbors are in when you dial in it to number 12 (everyone Else's goes to 11 ) |
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Post by MartinT on May 18, 2020 15:51:51 GMT
Yes, I remember the chest punching stuff at Sabbath concerts and the like. The Marquee was like that, too, as well as causing general deafness at 100 paces.
Few electronica bands plumb the depths like Yello while still keeping it musical. It may not be real but I love their sound quality and attention to detail.
Back to bass guitars, it's great that so much effort was put into it sounding good on this recording. On too many releases, bass guitar and drum are an afterthought and relegated to the background.
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Post by Slinger on May 18, 2020 16:13:19 GMT
Bob Clearmountain was a bass player in his youth, which might explain some things. Mind you, Bob Ludwig was a trumpeter, so I'm not actually sure if it does or not.  |
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Post by user211 on May 18, 2020 20:58:40 GMT
The lowest notes are not as deep as they sound, but they are very powerful. They mostly fall in the 30-50Hz range although it's hard to get a consistent reading. Is that a dynamic display just frozen for the post? I think a temporal FFT is better for the task. With one note on a bass and nothing else playing, say, it will show you the energy output from 0 to 20K. The software to do it is free. Iif interested I can tell you more. |
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Post by MartinT on May 18, 2020 21:40:15 GMT
Yes, I took a screenshot on my Android tablet while the track in the o/p was playing. I tried reducing the FFT size later and the accuracy improves. The white line is dynamic and yellow is peak hold.
If I had a bass I'd be interested, but there are no instruments here. Anyway, I was really interested in the bass playing in that track and what frequency it extended down to.
Do tell us more if you have interesting analytical tools.
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Post by user211 on May 19, 2020 15:31:41 GMT
Download Wavepad from NCH Software onto a Windows machine.
You just load a track in and get it to display a TFFT. It's very educational and pretty easy.
If you try a track which has a bass only intro or section it'll tell you a lot. You can literally see each individual note easily and it's output across the frequency range.
Dead cool. Sometimes maths is very impressive.
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Post by MartinT on May 19, 2020 16:22:47 GMT
Thanks, I'll do that on my Surface as my usual music room controller is Android.
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Post by user211 on May 19, 2020 16:56:06 GMT
The Android app version on my phone doesn't seem to do the TFFT stuff, so yup do it in Windows.
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