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Post by pre65 on Apr 18, 2020 12:00:56 GMT
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Post by jandl100 on Apr 18, 2020 13:36:27 GMT
My brain hurts with this -- so the H is stored at less pressure in this sponge.
"The key ability of the new framework is that it can potentially store hydrogen and other gases at much lower pressures while not needing an enormous tank."
OK, but don't you then get less H and so can't drive as far?
I'm obviously missing something.
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Post by pre65 on Apr 18, 2020 13:51:46 GMT
It made so much sense to me.
Try reading the article again. 
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Post by jandl100 on Apr 18, 2020 14:08:54 GMT
I've read it 3 times!
The whole point of compressing the H up until now has been to get enough of the very low density gas into the tank to go further than to the corner shop and back.
They claim this wonder sponge holds the H gas at lower pressure, so there must be less of it?
Or is it some sort of wonder sponge that somehow compresses the gas without it having to be contained by a hi-tech expensive tank? That would be astonishing.
Hmm, they do say "Like a bath sponge, the product is able to hold and release large quantities of the gas at lower pressure and cost."
But a bath sponge only contains normal density water, you don't get more in there just cos it's a sponge.
Maybe it's just a poorly researched article, or maybe I'm being unusually thick today.
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Post by MartinT on Apr 18, 2020 14:23:49 GMT
I believe there are two ways to power a car from hydrogen: one is to use a fuel cell as in the article to generate electricity and power electric motors. The other is to burn the hydrogen in a modified internal combustion engine for a much cleaner result than by using petrol. I'm looking to the latter for interesting developments.
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Post by jandl100 on Apr 18, 2020 14:25:02 GMT
OK, I guess the wonder-sponge must act in some way as a high pressure container that can be filled and emptied appropriately for consumer use.
In which case, yes, it looks excellent news - although I'd like more details of this sponge stuff and how it works!
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Post by jandl100 on Apr 18, 2020 14:28:25 GMT
I believe there are two ways to power a car from hydrogen: one is to use a fuel cell as in the article to generate electricity and power electric motors. The other is to burn the hydrogen in a modified internal combustion engine for a much cleaner result than by using petrol. I'm looking to the latter for interesting developments. Would the 2 schemes have the same sort of efficiency? - i.e. need about the same amount of H fuel? You'd need a way to store it either under high pressure or by some sort of new technique like the sponge stuff to concentrate it down. In which case the sponge might be suitable for both approaches. |
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Post by pre65 on Apr 18, 2020 14:33:41 GMT
In which case, yes, it looks excellent news - although I'd like more details of this sponge stuff and how it works!
To me, the electric option seems more likely, as we now have lots of cars with the underpinning to suit.
Although I'm a confirmed "petrolhead" electric cars can have significant performance, particularly acceleration. |
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Post by mikeyb on Apr 18, 2020 15:59:43 GMT
James May drove a hydrogen powered car on Top Gear years ago and he said it would be the future of cars over electric, but he did say only if they were allowed to build them, referring to the oil companies of course.
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Post by ChrisB on Apr 18, 2020 17:32:37 GMT
As far as I am aware, there are no great naturally occurring reservoirs of hydrogen anywhere, so it would have to be created.
Only from memory of something I read ages ago, so I may well be wrong, but I think the main use for it is currently in the production of fertlisers and it requires more energy (obviously from a different fuel source) to create than can be recovered from it.
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Post by pre65 on Apr 18, 2020 17:50:20 GMT
it requires more energy (obviously from a different fuel source) to create than can be recovered from it. Would that also apply to electricity ? Other than renewables like wind and water generation. |
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Post by ChrisB on Apr 18, 2020 18:32:41 GMT
I don't know, but I think the issue is ignored with electric cars too. The emission at the exhaust pipe is not the only one that needs considering.
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Post by MartinT on Apr 18, 2020 19:41:19 GMT
Exactly.
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Post by MartinT on Apr 18, 2020 20:08:03 GMT
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Post by pre65 on Apr 18, 2020 20:11:43 GMT
And, what about all the pollution incurred by the manufacture of the batteries for electric vehicles ?
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Post by ChrisB on Apr 18, 2020 20:35:16 GMT
That too. Of course, all this stuff isn't new. They were powering cars with gas derived from wood (a renewable resource) back in the 1940s  |
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Post by jandl100 on Apr 19, 2020 5:58:00 GMT
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Post by pre65 on Apr 19, 2020 9:22:41 GMT
No mention about the pollution regarding battery production.
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Post by jandl100 on Apr 19, 2020 9:45:19 GMT
The article said they looked at the whole life cycle, so I assume they did.
Unfortunately the original study report doesn't seem to be available at the moment. The link to it is inaccessible. Maybe they've withdrawn it!
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