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Post by Pinch on Aug 19, 2014 20:29:37 GMT
Quick update: In order to do a proper comparison between the Pi and PC, I'm waiting for an extra ethernet cable to arrive, so I can have the PC and Pi on the network, and sending the same file to the DAC at the same time - then I'll be able to switch back forth, to better gauge the difference between them. I've been using the Pi exclusively for the past couple of days now, and it's been doing a pretty good job. My impression is that the SQ doesn't (yet) match that of the PC (though for the past month of so I've mostly been listening to LPs and tapes, so my memory could be a little off). But still, it's certainly not unpleasant. I've been fiddling with a few settings to try to eliminate the intermittent pops and clicks, but not cracked it yet. I've also been playing with, and researching, various control options - a mini-project will be to try to set it up for control via JRiver, since the web UI is fine but pretty damn clunky when it comes to navigating large libraries.
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Post by John on Aug 19, 2014 20:32:10 GMT
I would imagine the Pi would be quite slow with large files
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Post by Pinch on Aug 19, 2014 20:42:05 GMT
In terms of playback, so far it seems to handle large files okay - I've chucked some chunky hi-res stuff at it, and after adjusting the buffer settings playback was fine. In case I said something misleading, the reference to 'large libraries' above concerned the quantity and organisation of files that the Pi has access to. I'm using Volumio at the moment, and the web-based UI is fine, and quite pretty, but it's a little impractical for me to use for browsing and selecting tracks to play, since it simply mirrors the directory structure of the NAS, and even though my files are well organised, the sheer quantity of album folders makes this a PITA.
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Post by MartinT on Aug 20, 2014 1:05:45 GMT
Tom - I found that the intermittent pops and clicks (because of the USB interface) were solved by updating Linux. Certainly the version used in the Volumio v1.41 build that I'm using.
You can use Putty to login to the RPi. Then perform an update (which refreshes the list of available versions), followed by an upgrade:
sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get upgrade
Try it and see if the USB interface performance is improved (no clicks).
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Post by Pinch on Aug 20, 2014 8:25:34 GMT
Thanks Martin! I'm using the same Volumio build, so will give this a go. Though, I'm now venturing into very unfamiliar territory, so we'll see how far I get - I'll have to do some research
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Post by MartinT on Aug 20, 2014 12:21:21 GMT
Sorry that I can't give you step by step, but I'm away until September. Start with Putty, login to the RPi (pi, raspberry), then do the above. It has to have access to the internet over ethernet cable or wi-fi.
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Post by Pinch on Aug 20, 2014 12:35:40 GMT
No worries Martin - it was more straightforward than I was expecting, and interesting to get under the hood a little. Hope you're enjoying the US
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Post by Pinch on Aug 20, 2014 13:54:49 GMT
I should really be working, but the ethernet cable arrived earlier and I couldn't resist a quick head-to-head between the PC and the Pi. At the moment I'm just comparing the Pi to the PC outputting via an ordinary USB port, rather than the SOtM, and my initial impressions - from having them both playing the same track at the same time, and switching between them - is that there is not a lot in it, but perhaps the PC edges it in a couple of areas - e.g., the bass is just slightly deeper - though any differences are subtle. Anyway, I'll carry out a more prolonged test soon - tomorrow evening hopefully - and report back.
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Post by MartinT on Aug 20, 2014 14:59:15 GMT
It's good that it's that close between them, Tom. Did upgrading Linux help you with the clicks?
When I get the Digi I2S S/PDIF board for the B+, I'm expecting a notch up in SQ over USB. We shall see.
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Post by John on Aug 20, 2014 15:13:01 GMT
Martin I am expecting a notch up in your system too as the SPDIF output on the Caiman is a lot better
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Post by Pinch on Aug 20, 2014 15:18:12 GMT
Yes I was surprised! I'm continuing to play from them both while I work, and occasionally switching between them - the difference really is subtle, and it may be that the Pi slightly edges the PC in other areas - the presentation seems slightly flatter with PC, though again I need to test this with more care. Upgrading Linux does seem to have reduced, though not entirely eliminated the clicks - perhaps I have to fiddle with the buffer settings a little more. Yes the Digi+ board looks great! I might get one also, as it will be useful if I want to deploy the Pi elsewhere in the flat.
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Post by John on Aug 20, 2014 15:28:56 GMT
Great it working out so well and pretty even with your PC Audio system
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Post by Pinch on Aug 20, 2014 15:37:09 GMT
Well the caveat is that I've not yet tested it against the PC outputting via the SOtM card - my suspicion is that the difference would then be less subtle, and entirely in the PC's favour. But that's as it should be given the price disparity. However, if the Pi were partnered with something like this then perhaps that would close the gap, as the ifi seems to address some of the same issues as the SOtM, just at a different point in the chain.
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Post by John on Aug 20, 2014 15:39:31 GMT
I think just go for a lithium power supply if I was you as it be a lot cheaper and imagine just as good. I think Martin got some great results using this method
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Post by Pinch on Aug 20, 2014 15:47:21 GMT
Ah well, I'm currently powering it with one of these: www.justmobile.com/productdetail.asp?productid=32933But this was just the one that we had lying around here, and I don't know if something differently spec'd might produce better results (way beyond my field of expertise here)
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Post by John on Aug 20, 2014 15:49:07 GMT
That should do a good job If you can get on sale and return it might be worth a try to see what is best
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Post by Pinch on Aug 28, 2014 19:51:14 GMT
Quick update (in lieu of something more substantial): Finally got the Pi working with JRiver - now I can control it with either Media Centre on the laptop, or JRemote on the iPad - much much much nicer than using volumios web-UI. Very pleased!
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Post by MartinT on Aug 28, 2014 20:18:14 GMT
We need screenshots
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Post by Pinch on Aug 29, 2014 18:34:19 GMT
Here you go! So, I've been running the Pi for nearly two weeks now - here's some things that have happened so far: As I noted above, I set out with the intention of running RuneAudio, rather than Volumio, but I didn't get very far with this. Once I'd established that the Pi's initial refusal to do anything was due to my trying to use a version of Rune that wasn't compatible with the B+ board, I flashed the micro SD card with correct version, powered up the Pi, and everything worked! Well, at least I could connect to the Pi via Rune's web-UI, and pointing it towards the NAS was straightforward enough. However, I couldn't get it to play any files correctly - whatever I played came out as series of distorted squelches. In other circumstances, this might be a nice thing - I have some music which sounds pretty much the same - but obviously something wasn't working correctly. So, after fiddling unsuccessfully with various buffer settings, I concluded that Rune doesn't get along very well with my USB interface. I have a couple of other DACs with USB inputs, so could test this some time, but wasn't in the mood to do it then, and switched to Volumio. Volumio worked 'out of the box'. I tested it by pointing it towards just one music folder on the NAS, and it was able to play the files fine - no more squelching! So, after establishing that it worked, I pointed it towards the entire library. It took around two hours for it to build a database, but there's quite a lot of music there, so fair enough. Once that was done, I was able to use the web-UI to browse the library, and play and queue files. One thing I noticed about the web-UI, is that - at least on the current version of Volumio (an older version had more flexibility here it seems) - the library structure mirrors the directory structure on the NAS, and does not make much use of the information stored in the files' tags. This isn't a huge problem for me, since I keep my files quite well organised, but I suspect it would be a problem for some. So, on opening the NAS mount, this is what I get: You'll see I have the files organised first by genre, and then by album: It looks nice, but a problem is that, with a big library (even a well organised one), this is still a very clunky way of browsing one's music, particularly compared to what I'm used to... JRiver on the laptop: Which is itself outdone by JRemote on the iPad: So, from my perspective, this was a mark against the Pi - if digital music isn't convenient then, for me, it loses one of the key reasons for using it. So I did some research, and found this thread on the JRiver forums: yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=89044.0This indicated that it should be possible to use the Pi as 'DLNA renderer' for JRiver. This sounded good, but then I didn't know what a DLNA renderer was, so I was unsure if this is what I was after. I then found a handy glossary here, and it seemed that what I really wanted to do was to use JRiver and JRemote as a DLNA controller for the Pi. I haven't figured out yet whether this is possible, but it seems that using the Pi as DLNA renderer for JRiver is in fact close enough to what I wanted. So, after reading through some relevant threads, and reading an old update on the Volumio blog, I discovered that - as of version 1.4 - Volumio is actually packaged with a DLNA renderer, so things were pretty straight-forward in the end (if only I discovered this before spending several pained hours with the command prompt...). It's simply a matter of accessing the system settings via the web UI, and turning on 'UPNP Control'. Once this is done, Volumio appears as a zone in JRiver: And JRemote: And then - whilst in this zone - I can browse the library as I usually would, and when I select tracks they're sent to the Pi. One thing I noticed is that, by default, JRiver is set to transcode lossless DLNAd files to high-quality MP3, which I wasn't very keen on, and the setting turned out to be quite well hidden (from me at least). Here it is: Options > Media Network > ... Add or configure DLNA servers ... > Audio > Mode > Original Now everything works perfectly! Although, I'm slightly unsure of the underlying process here - is the file still going straight from the NAS to the Pi, or is it going from the NAS to the Pi via the PC? I don't know. One thing to check though is the comparison between the Pi playing a file like this, and it playing the same file from its own NAS mount. I don't know enough about this stuff to know whether to expect any difference, but the chap in the JRiver thread found that there was (though he was using a different renderer). I still need to do some proper comparisons, and have a go at evaluating the Pi in terms of sound quality - maybe this weekend!
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Post by MartinT on Aug 29, 2014 21:25:08 GMT
Very interesting, Tom. I'm not so worried about the user interface at the moment, but JRiver looks good. Hopefully my Digi+ will have arrived by my return, and that is where I hope to yield the greatest step-up in sound quality.
My next challenge after that will be to get Spotify working with the RPi.
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