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Post by MartinT on Oct 10, 2019 8:47:38 GMT
Even so, it may still be that it's drawing power via the USB cable - at least, with numerous USB DACs that have their own supplies, their USB interfaces are still powered by the USB 5v. If you have a spare USB cable that you're happy to mutilate, you could test by breaking off the power pin in the connector and then checking whether it still works with the Mutec's USB input. Yes, I was going to isolate the 5V DC at some point as a test, but I do remember something that the German head honcho of Mutec said about total USB isolation.
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Post by MartinT on Oct 10, 2019 8:49:14 GMT
I am now in possession of an Asus Tinkerboard S. The case will only arrive next week so I'll dig out an old Pi case to get it going tonight.
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Post by Pinch on Oct 10, 2019 9:26:21 GMT
Yes, I was going to isolate the 5V DC at some point as a test, but I do remember something that the German head honcho of Mutec said about total USB isolation. That may be a reference to galvanic isolation - I seem to recall this being on the feature list? If so, then it may be that it is still drawing USB power, or maybe not, but if it is then it'll definitely be worth experimenting with a cleaner 5v supply.
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Post by Clive on Oct 10, 2019 11:12:46 GMT
I think you'll need at least the USB ground connected for a handshake to work.
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Post by MartinT on Oct 10, 2019 11:42:12 GMT
I won't mount the provided CPU heatsink as the Akasa case I have coming includes heat spreaders to the casework above and below.
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Post by Slinger on Oct 10, 2019 12:45:01 GMT
You must be chomping at the bit, Martin. I'm glad mine's arriving with case, card, and USB lead, all in one delivery tomorrow. I don't know if you took a look at the case I've ordered, by the way, but it's fan-cooled (probably about as much use as a chocolate teapot) and it comes with extra heat-sinks. What attracted me to it though was the fact that there are optional "butterflies" or "gaskets," as they're apparently known in Chinglish, to allow one to wall-mount it. I thought that was a decent option to have.
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Post by Pinch on Oct 10, 2019 13:03:07 GMT
Amazing how Pi-like it is! Does the ASUS have advantages over the RPi4? As I recall, the new version gets rid of the shared USB/ethernet bus, so the USB output should be cleaner(?) Also, should have mentioned that if the Mutec's USB input isn't powered by the USB 5v, then you might also make some gain by just disconnecting the USB power line - something like this should do the job: www.sbooster.com/sbooster-tweaks/vbus2-isolator/
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Post by MartinT on Oct 10, 2019 14:30:21 GMT
Yes Tom, I've already described the use of separate ethernet and USB bus, the biggest advantage of the Asus, especially when streaming high bitrate music where the ethernet is incoming and USB outgoing simultaneously. Additionally, the Asus is far more powerful and comparable to a small PC, which should help with its general speediness and serving of the GUI interface.
Nice case, Paul, I hadn't come across that one. Never mind, the Akasa case is coming to me tomorrow so we'll both have some fun in the weekend. I avoided the fan option as small ones tend to be quite noisy.
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Post by Slinger on Oct 10, 2019 14:59:56 GMT
... Nice case, Paul, I hadn't come across that one. Never mind, the Akasa case is coming to me tomorrow so we'll both have some fun in the weekend. I avoided the fan option as small ones tend to be quite noisy. It was one of those "suck-it-and-see" decisions, Martin. I tried to choose something with plenty of "holes," and that case looks well enough ventilated that if the fan is a problem I can just disconnect it and throw it away. The whole case assembly, fan, "gaskets," and all was only £11.99 so I'm not that worried about keeping the fan. This was my second choice but the "gaskets" won out; that and the fact that it was ABS and not aluminium. Asus were very smart to make the Tinker Board with the same form factor as the Pi. It means that take-up will probably be faster as there are many ready-made case solutions on the market already, and of course it also means that they don't need spend money providing custom peripherals to fit their product.
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Post by Pinch on Oct 10, 2019 15:00:50 GMT
Of course, but I was thinking that the new RPi models also have the separate USB and ethernet bus, and so should have a cleaner USB output than the RPi3 and previous models (I might be misremembering this detail of the RPi4, though). So perhaps on this front the ASUS and the RPi4 would be even(?)
But I'd be interested to see a power comparison between the ASUS and the RPi4 - haven't found much online that pertains to the 4 rather than the 3. I had assumed that I would get an RPi4 at some point soon to replace the RPi3 that I currently have sitting on the network serving music to the streamer, since the extra power would be advantage. But the ASUS seems like it might also be a good option.
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Post by MartinT on Oct 10, 2019 16:18:38 GMT
Of course, but I was thinking that the new RPi models also have the separate USB and ethernet bus, and so should have a cleaner USB output than the RPi3 and previous models (I might be misremembering this detail of the RPi4, though). So perhaps on this front the ASUS and the RPi4 would be even(?) This may be a wildly incorrect conclusion on my part, but what swayed me was that reports of the Pi4 as an audio streamer were not as good as the Pi3, while the Volumio Primo (which uses the Asus) was getting very good reviews indeed. Whatever I build, I can switch to a Pi4 very easily should I wish to.
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Post by SNR&THD on Oct 10, 2019 17:21:40 GMT
I'm amazed that there are so few streamers available that are 'pure' transports. I can understand the demand for all-in-one solutions but those who are interested in extracting the best sound possible and flexibility are likely going to want to use their own DACs. I'm wondering if @tonyc or SNR&THD have an opinion on this? If you want a transport that only has USB out I don't see anything wrong with what these guys are doing. Mod: this thread is about the build
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Post by SNR&THD on Oct 10, 2019 17:26:08 GMT
Yes, I was going to isolate the 5V DC at some point as a test, but I do remember something that the German head honcho of Mutec said about total USB isolation. That may be a reference to galvanic isolation - I seem to recall this being on the feature list? If so, then it may be that it is still drawing USB power, or maybe not, but if it is then it'll definitely be worth experimenting with a cleaner 5v supply. Most 5V supplies are already isolated, they have transformer inside. If they have 2 prongs this is very likely, if they have 3 prongs than you have to see how the 3rd prong is connected.
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Post by MartinT on Oct 10, 2019 18:49:44 GMT
I've got a lash-up working in an old HiFiBerry case I had lying around. First observation is that this little baby eats current on start-up. The Asus peaks at 2A on boot up before settling back to around 0.9A when operational. Make sure your power supply can cope!
Second observation is that it's noticeably faster than a Pi3. No surprise there, but the GUI is very responsive.
Third observation (and this is very unfair as I've had to go back to my old battery pack power supply with SMPS charger) is that the USB output sounds very promising. I swear there is more bass, and my system doesn't lack bass in any interpretation of 'lack'. The Asus has a lot of impact across the frequency spectrum.
Fourth observation: the Pi's compromised ethernet/USB setup occasionally gave me little tics when streaming 24/192, which I had put down to the Qobuz service. Not so, those tics have gone demonstrating that there is bandwidth in the USB controller where it's needed.
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Post by Pinch on Oct 10, 2019 19:23:35 GMT
Third observation (and this is very unfair as I've had to go back to my old battery pack power supply with SMPS charger) is that the USB output sounds very promising. I swear there is more bass, and my system doesn't lack bass in any interpretation of 'lack'. The Asus has a lot of impact across the frequency spectrum. Sounds right to me - each time my USB output got a bit cleaner the most obvious difference was always in the bass getting a little deeper and cleaner.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2019 7:28:33 GMT
Spotted quite a few little upgrades on the board that will help as well
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Post by MartinT on Oct 11, 2019 7:48:29 GMT
Spotted quite a few little upgrades on the board that will help as well Have you bought one, Tony, or been looking at the photos?
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Post by Slinger on Oct 11, 2019 12:46:02 GMT
My "toys" have arrived. Lunch, and then it's screwdriver-time.
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Post by MartinT on Oct 11, 2019 12:46:45 GMT
Yay! I shall be transferring mine to its proper home tonight.
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Post by Slinger on Oct 11, 2019 15:12:13 GMT
Well, that was all a bit of an anticlimax really. I put it in the case, connected everything up and it all worked straight away. I've got all of my classical albums loaded up and I'm now listening to a nice bit of Vivaldi. Received wisdom is that the USB lead I've used takes a fair bit of running in. Not a huge amount of bass at the moment, which is exactly what was said about the (Oyaide NEO d+ USB Class B) USB lead. I'll obviously need to give it plenty of time and I've only played a couple of tracks so far. A bit "brittle" and treble-heavy, but not absolutely awful. At least I can listen to it while the lead sorts itself out... or not.
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