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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 14:56:40 GMT
Yawn! They are so wrong and they don't even know that they are spreading further misinformation to the uninformed. You should see one of the Facebook pages, can't remember what it is called but I think it is based out of the US and it is comical the way in which they literally rip apart anyone who dares to mention improvements in cables!
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Post by MartinT on Jan 9, 2019 15:20:52 GMT
I promise I'm only playing Devil's Advocate here, and you know I don't have an agenda of any sort, but can the "improvement" gained by using a decent digital cable be measured, or is it all in the ears, so to speak? Jitter is readily measurable and the difference between, say, co-ax and optical is readily seen as well as heard (I still remember Paul Miller demonstrating the difference between a 1m optical cable and 100' of co-ax. The co-ax won). However, that cannot be the entirety of it. The very act of 'squaring' an analogue waveform going down a co-ax, optical or twisted pair carrier is going to depend on how fast the switching responds, what kind of hysteresis it exhibits etc. And then there is the timing of the clock itself, quite apart from the jitter introduced by the cable. Finally, what about noise pickup? Again, noise will minutely affect the precision of the squaring process, itself converting into time domain errors. Mostly, though, the arbiter is your ears. I remember switching from the highly recommended and suitable for the purpose Belden 1694A co-ax to a Coherent on one occasion and a Black Cat on another (for S/PDIF). In both cases, the improvement was obviously and laughably apparent.
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Post by speedysteve on Jan 9, 2019 15:46:27 GMT
I was very happy with my USB -> I2S converter WaveIO. Been using it for, must be 5-6 years now!
I only ditched it because I wanted an over internet streamer project.
Going RPi -> Kali - I2S has, once the hinders were removed, proved very good.
The designer of WAF Najda (4 channel DSP XO DAC) always said I2S in, if done right was the goto..
I have < 40mm direct connections board to board.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 15:48:39 GMT
Hi Paul You can look at the 'fish eye' pattern of a digital wave form whilst traveling down a cable and you can compare various cables visually this way (whist keeping all of the set up parameters the same) The general feeling is that the straighter the leading edge of the square wave form the more desirable it will be, however happy to demonstrate cables which look less than ideal on a quality scope yet produce more desirable SQ than ones which look better. Can you formulate a theroy on this, quite possibly, given a decent lab, a couple of PHD post grad researchers and a respectable budget most things are possible. However it is a digital cable, not exactly high on the human race most desirable issues to resolve
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Post by MartinT on Jan 9, 2019 22:01:10 GMT
All discussion of audiophiles / music lovers moved to a new thread here.
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Post by speedysteve on Jan 9, 2019 22:05:21 GMT
I'll keep this one short. I2S is da bomb + The I2S route in made perfect sense to me. Why convert I2S to SPdif only to re-convert it again in my DAC.
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Post by John on Jan 10, 2019 7:51:53 GMT
So why I am thinking of going I2s Mainly because the SOtM is not a long term solution to my streaming needs. A few weeks ago Spotify updated on Windows which means I cannot use Spotify connect via my Windows tablets. Thankfully I can use from my fire tablet and phone but if I have to turn on the SOtM I have to use the Windows volume control as no volume control via the fire tablet or phone. It is very unlikely SOtM will update the software to fix the issue at least with volumio they update fixes quite quickly. The SOtM is better than the DigiOne and so it should be in terms of sound quality. So moving back does not appeal to me. I also been reading reports from people who have travelled this path and for me reads the way to go. I will wait however it not something I am in a rush to explore. To be fair to SOtM most people using it would use it for Roon and Tidal but I did try it out and did not hear an improvement with Tidal that made the extra costs worth it.
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Post by stanleyb on Jan 10, 2019 9:39:56 GMT
Roon now recognizes the Caiman DAC by name. One thing that I2S can't do properly is automatically identify changing bitrates and sample rates.
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Post by MartinT on Jan 10, 2019 10:17:36 GMT
One thing that I2S can't do properly is automatically identify changing bitrates and sample rates. Would that just cause a glitch when changing rates? Not that I'm particularly worried about constantly changing rates except when listening to Qobuz where different albums are at different resolutions.
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Post by John on Jan 10, 2019 10:25:00 GMT
I would not really have that as a issue but understand this might be important to others In roon my SOtM would show up. For me I like the interface with Roon very simple to use. Just think it a bit overpriced
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Post by gazjam on Jan 12, 2019 10:24:21 GMT
i2s for me too.
I've done a chunk of mod upgrades to my Oppo 203, one of which was fitting an i2s output card to take advantage of my Dacs i2s input. The improvement over the spdif to spdif connection is noticeable. My phonostage uses i2s into the dac too, sounds good.
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Post by MartinT on Jan 23, 2019 13:18:33 GMT
I've been a little confused with the two wiring standards for I 2S over HDMI. There's the PS Audio configuration (which you could call the authentic standard as they created it) and the Gustard/LKS standard. The difference is in pin 1 (SD is -ve for PS, +ve for Gustard) and pin 3 (SD is +ve for PS, -ve for Gustard). Similarly, pins 7 & 9 (L/RCLK) are switched. However, BCK and MCLK are not switched. Annoying differences! When I ordered the Audiophonics streamer, I put a note in as suggested to say that I needed 'Gustard' wiring. I opened it up last night to find the so-called jumper to check that it was configured correctly and found no jumper on the HDMI board. After much searching around, I *think* there are two boards now but Audiophonics don't properly identify the difference. Here they are: This one has data pinout showing pin 1 is SD -ve, so it should be PS standard, right? However, this one has no data pinout and is the one installed in my streamer. It has one marking difference, "GLA" which I thought might represent "Gustard LKS Audiobyte" but that's just a wild guess. So, have I got the right board and pinout? I'm going to have to contact them and ask. Meanwhile, the LKS DAC has just left China so I have a while to wait yet.
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Post by speedysteve on Jan 23, 2019 17:33:16 GMT
It would seem logical to label them.. Best to check though.
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Post by MartinT on Jan 24, 2019 18:13:52 GMT
Damn, why are there always road blocks? Audiophonics have contacted me rather sheepishly to admit that since they changed the HDMI board in the V2 it's only PS compatible now. So the two boards shown above are the same. They've offered me a refund but... ...I am not one to give in so easily. This is the streamer I need and I've done some more research and found this: This one has four solder jumpers for A (Gustard) or B (PS) operation. It can be set for local or HDMI provided 3.3V (need local to work in this application) and the direction I2S -> HDMI can be set with S1. Seems ideal, even the bracket holes look to be the same pitch. I found it on eBay and then discovered that Audiophonics stock it. I've asked them the question!
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Post by John on Jan 24, 2019 18:27:00 GMT
Shit hope you sort this out Martin they hopefully send you the board
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Post by Slinger on Jan 24, 2019 18:47:16 GMT
I've been a little confused with the two wiring standards for I 2S over HDMI. There's the PS Audio configuration (which you could call the authentic standard as they created it) and the Gustard/LKS standard. The difference is in pin 1 (SD is -ve for PS, +ve for Gustard) and pin 3 (SD is +ve for PS, -ve for Gustard). Similarly, pins 7 & 9 (L/RCLK) are switched. However, BCK and MCLK are not switched. Annoying differences! When I ordered the Audiophonics streamer, I put a note in as suggested to say that I needed 'Gustard' wiring. I opened it up last night to find the so-called jumper to check that it was configured correctly and found no jumper on the HDMI board. After much searching around, I *think* there are two boards now but Audiophonics don't properly identify the difference. Here they are: This one has data pinout showing pin 1 is SD -ve, so it should be PS standard, right? However, this one has no data pinout and is the one installed in my streamer. It has one marking difference, "GLA" which I thought might represent "Gustard LKS Audiobyte" but that's just a wild guess. So, have I got the right board and pinout? I'm going to have to contact them and ask. Meanwhile, the LKS DAC has just left China so I have a while to wait yet. I may be muddying the waters here, and apologise if I am (or if I'm pointing out the obvious and/or irrelevant) but there is another difference between the two cards in that the first one is I2S TC C 1 whereas the second card is marked I2S TC C 2 perhaps indicating a later version of the same card?
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Post by MartinT on Jan 24, 2019 20:22:03 GMT
Well spotted, Paul. It could well be, but all the info on these boards say either that it's PS compatible or say nothing at all about it. I was led astray by Audiophonics stating it can be configured to be Gustard compatible at the time of ordering. Not with that board, it can't. I think that piece of text is a leftover from the V1 product. Further confusion came from a thread where the user had to open it up and change a jumper. I think he had a V1, too.
I'm reasonably sure the new board I found will do the job. Now to get Audiophonics to send me one...
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Post by MartinT on Jan 25, 2019 9:39:08 GMT
Researching that new board a little more, I'm 99% certain it'll do the job and is a higher quality fully buffered circuit, too. It would also give me any compatibility (e.g. PS) I might want in the future. Only £15 on eBay from Hong Kong so ordered!
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Post by John on Jan 25, 2019 9:40:46 GMT
Glad you found a solution Martin
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Post by MartinT on Feb 5, 2019 15:06:27 GMT
Here's the Audiophonics streamer with original I 2S HDMI board (compatible with PS Audio). Now replaced with the new Chinese HDMI board (compatible with Gustard/LKS). This is a drop-in fit, much to my relief. I was all set to have to re-work the rear panel. I soldered patch cables to the board so that I can debug and get it working. Will try to get it going tonight but I'm struggling to remember what I 2S DAC Steve has selected in Volumio. Was it Apple Pi DAC?
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