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Post by julesd68 on Oct 27, 2018 19:14:17 GMT
OK tech boys, when reading quoted measurements on speakers, how do you interpret what is 'decent' low bass? As an example how would you decipher - lower cut-off frequency (-3dB) 46 Hz
Lower frequency limit (-6 dB) 37 Hz
Or are there other more useful measurements? Please help, I haven't a clue.  |
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Post by MikeMusic on Oct 27, 2018 20:55:06 GMT
Having lead a sheltered life I have never seen such measurements.
Still working out what happened to my system recently as the speakers produce bass so much better after the grounding box arrived.
Can you trust what manufacturers say.....
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Post by jandl100 on Oct 28, 2018 8:11:36 GMT
In room sound will have a great effect.
Much depends on room size/dimensions and placement of speakers relative to boundaries and room nodes.
The specs by themselves don't help too much.
-6dB into the mid 30s Hz shows that good bass response is available under the right circumstances imo.
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Post by John on Oct 28, 2018 10:56:32 GMT
Measurements give a guide to how likely they are to reach those lower octaves but each room is different and they will not tell you how well they will they will capture the bass
I think for your classical and rock taste good clean bass is essential for my jazz taste so is articulation
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Post by Stratmangler on Oct 28, 2018 11:38:30 GMT
OK tech boys, when reading quoted measurements on speakers, how do you interpret what is 'decent' low bass? As an example how would you decipher - lower cut-off frequency (-3dB) 46 Hz
Lower frequency limit (-6 dB) 37 Hz
Or are there other more useful measurements? Please help, I haven't a clue. The measurement are there to both impress and bewilder in uninitiated 
The bottom E fundamental on a bass guitar/double bass is 41Hz (referenced to A=440Hz). Normal bass tuning practise is E, A, D and G, going from low to high.
The minus dB figure indicates a reduction in power/intensity at the stated frequency, so the upper example will likely as not produce more output at 37Hz than the lower example.
I suspect the neither speaker can properly produce a 41Hz fundamental, but the upper one will make a better fist of it. Nothing ever just cuts off unless it's in the recording.
As Jerry has said, the room is extremely important, because it too will impose itself.
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Post by jandl100 on Oct 28, 2018 11:44:36 GMT
I suspect those specs are for the same speaker, just at-3dB and -6dB rolloff points probably in an anechoic chamber. As John said, the spec tells you how deep the bass goes (i.e. how much there is of it at the specified frequencies) but tells you nothing at all about the bass sound quality. And a lot of the bass sq will depend on the interaction of the speaker with the amplifier that's driving it. You just gotta listen, or trust someone who has.  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2018 11:47:47 GMT
And there was me thinking you were going to obtain a low B, oh poo  Think Room <> Speaker interaction first, other wise a some 21" Cervin Vega cabs and a couple of KW Crown amps low pass set for 37Hz, half decent source and you will be well away, reminds me of a Motorhead gig on the Bomber tour must be the PMC boys then  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2018 13:35:49 GMT
Too technical for me, I just listen.
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Post by julesd68 on Oct 28, 2018 17:36:14 GMT
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Post by jandl100 on Oct 28, 2018 18:01:22 GMT
Wow, I'm gobsmacked. Did you really not know that stuff? I guess you had an arts education.  ---- as for "so 10dB louder is “twice as loud.”". Errr, no, not really! |
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Post by MartinT on Oct 28, 2018 18:25:06 GMT
In my opinion loudspeaker specs will tell you very little about how they sound. As said above, positioning, room interaction and floor/stands you put them on will have a huge influence on their sound.
One for instance: you may have two speakers rated at -3dB at 55Hz. One has a slow tail-off while the other plummets a little below this frequency. Same 'spec' but they will sound quite different.
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Post by julesd68 on Oct 28, 2018 18:41:05 GMT
Wow, I'm gobsmacked. Did you really not know that stuff? I guess you had an arts education. ---- as for "so 10dB louder is “twice as loud.”". Errr, no, not really! Yes, apologies for being a complete dumb-ass, I didn't know this stuff. And yes, I did have an arts education as you have guessed ... |
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Post by julesd68 on Oct 28, 2018 18:42:03 GMT
In my opinion loudspeaker specs will tell you very little about how they sound. As said above, positioning, room interaction and floor/stands you put them on will have a huge influence on their sound. One for instance: you may have two speakers rated at -3dB at 55Hz. One has a slow tail-off while the other plummets a little below this frequency. Same 'spec' but they will sound quite different. I wouldn't dispute any of that, I merely wanted some understanding of the figures. |
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Post by MartinT on Oct 28, 2018 22:10:39 GMT
It's worth reproducing this from your link, Jules.  |
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Post by jandl100 on Oct 29, 2018 7:49:54 GMT
Of course, a slightly tweaked up bass can be impressive (and a lot of fun), and hoisting the 2-5KHz region up a bit can enhance perceived resolution.  A small speaker can be made to sound bigger by an upward bump 80-200Hz. Reduce the output between 80Hz and 200Hz on a larger speaker and rock music can sound faster, clearer and more exciting. Flat Earthers loved this one, although try reproducing a grand piano with this and you'll fall off your chair laughing as it makes it sound like a honky-tonk upright. Lots of tricks available to play with frequency response.  |
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Post by MikeMusic on Oct 29, 2018 10:10:44 GMT
Thanks for the link Jules and good on Alesis for the detail. Dbs and loudness. More complicated than I thought An increase of 3dB doubles the sound intensity but a 10dB increase is required before a sound is perceived to be twice as loud. Therefore a small increase in decibels represents a large increase in intensity. For example - 10dB is 10 times more intense than 1dB, while 20dB is 100 times more intense than 1dB. What's a Decibel - Sound Dead Steel.com www.sounddeadsteel.com/what-is-a-decibel.html |
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Post by jandl100 on Oct 29, 2018 10:28:19 GMT
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Post by MikeMusic on Oct 29, 2018 10:48:17 GMT
Thanks Jerry
That looks like it needs some time to sink in
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Post by jandl100 on Oct 29, 2018 11:00:11 GMT
The trouble with decibels is that they are logarithmic and so are not very intuitive at all! Wiki dumps you in at the deep end of logarithms!! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithm |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2018 11:23:24 GMT
Jerry beat me to the punch, they are a log scale so get your table books out for that (I am showing my age here?)
A lot of so called 'flat earth speakers' have that lift in 70-140Hz range for that delectable bumpty bump, rat a tat so called PRaT enhancing foot tapping bollox.
The Tune demer's speakers of choice Neat/Royd/PMC? plus a few other of ill repute.
If you can select a more linear top to bottom cohesive sound that imho will deliver much more enjoyable long term listen ability and will help you become more involved in the music.
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