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Post by mattspl on Jan 1, 2024 22:57:19 GMT
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Post by brettj on Jan 2, 2024 9:34:38 GMT
I meant 'streamer' with Stack Audio's Theo and John Westlake.
Not sure why my typos are continuing.
Maybe it's because the summer temperature reached 22ºC today.
Stack Audio Smoothlan will end up going into my streamer.
No, they are not my switches.
- Pink Faun Lan Isolator
- Acoustic Revive RLI-1GB-Triple C Lan Isolator
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Post by brettj on Jan 2, 2024 9:42:32 GMT
I read a review that there were better switches around the same price. |
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Post by MartinT on Jan 2, 2024 9:50:06 GMT
It's just a tweaked Cisco switch, not a bottom-up new design.
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Post by NigelB on Jan 2, 2024 9:56:38 GMT
It's just a tweaked Cisco switch, not a bottom-up new design. A tweaked Cisco switch could of course be worse or better, as there is nothing inherently superior in a bottom-up design; one would have to understand the rationale behind each element of a design and some Cisco models do (the 2960 anyway) give a good account of themselves in their untweaked form. And then one would need to hear them back to back. This particular one doesn't disguise its roots and that case doesn't look like it would do anything to reduce RFI noise, so the only tweaks I can imagine they've done are to use quieter components in say the power supply.
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Post by brettj on Jan 2, 2024 9:58:10 GMT
I bought a Cisco switch and sent it to Brent at Fidelity Audio.
He put one of his clocks in it.
No typo there!
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Post by NigelB on Jan 2, 2024 10:03:46 GMT
I bought a Cisco switch and sent it to Brent at Fidelity Audio. He put one of his clocks in it. No typo there! I presume the Fidelity Audio clock is quieter than the stock one. |
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Post by brettj on Jan 2, 2024 10:13:32 GMT
I didn't hear the stock version, as I bought the switch on Ebay UK and then sent it to them.
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Post by NigelB on Jan 2, 2024 10:28:29 GMT
I didn't hear the stock version, as I bought the switch on Ebay UK and then sent it to them. Cool. I guess my point is that replacing a stock ethernet clock with a quieter one can indeed improve sound quality, but replacing it with a more accurate one (which is what many folk focus on) will not in its own right do so.
Jitter in ethernet refers to variations in the delay in delivering packets of data and is a real world issue in large and overloaded corporate networks but not in domestic settings. Your streamer then buffers the data before reconstructing it into a bitstream anyway, and this is where the jitter of which we audio enthusiasts usualy speak can indeed be an issue and can indeed be audibly improved through higher clock accuracy. |
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Tobias
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Post by Tobias on Jan 4, 2024 12:42:51 GMT
I didn't hear the stock version, as I bought the switch on Ebay UK and then sent it to them. Cool. I guess my point is that replacing a stock ethernet clock with a quieter one can indeed improve sound quality, but replacing it with a more accurate one (which is what many folk focus on) will not in its own right do so.
Jitter in ethernet refers to variations in the delay in delivering packets of data and is a real world issue in large and overloaded corporate networks but not in domestic settings. Your streamer then buffers the data before reconstructing it into a bitstream anyway, and this is where the jitter of which we audio enthusiasts usualy speak can indeed be an issue and can indeed be audibly improved through higher clock accuracy. I have to agree that I have also become very convinced that it is mostly the noise (and vibration) factor that is important in the digital domain. As you say, additional clocks can help lower the noise floor, for several reasons, but I think it might be an overly complicated way of lowering the noise floor and it has nothing to do with the actual additional clocking. The additional clocking theory doesn´t make any sense, when performed before the DAC clock, in my mind. (but again, if it lowers the noise floor, it will be an improvement...) The Network Accoustics Muon Pro network filters, which is expensive but very efficient, is an example that the digital domain noise can be filtered away, without any involvement of additional clocking. |
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Post by MartinT on Jan 4, 2024 14:34:45 GMT
The process of running the signal via a low phase noise clock is one of the best ways of reducing noise in the signal chain. You're right that concepts such as jitter reduction rather sidetrack the issue and serve to confuse. Its all about reducing noise going into the DAC.
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Post by NigelB on Jan 4, 2024 16:39:37 GMT
I do love it when a thread reaches violent agreement, even if briefly!
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Post by brettj on Jan 6, 2024 4:26:28 GMT
SR Orange fuses arrived yesterday and today.
From Hungary and Romania.
Put them in:
Plixir Elite LPS for network switch
Teddy Pardo MiniTeddy for streamer
Will have a good listen hopefully tonight
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Post by brettj on Jan 6, 2024 4:33:53 GMT
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Post by MartinT on Jan 6, 2024 8:48:37 GMT
From what I can see, it's only going to help an already decent low noise switch.
You might have been better off with an EtherREGEN as your switch to start with.
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Tobias
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Post by Tobias on Jan 6, 2024 9:54:30 GMT
If you are ok with introducing a WiFi extender/repeater (unless you have it already) i would strongly suggest trying this one first, for £35-40, in front of your switch: theaudiostandard.net/thread/7317/noise-wifi-extender-repeater-wr902acI have to say I found it is pretty amazing, in-terms of lowering the noise floor, for that money spent. Just make sure you get the plug´n play version 4, that is just released. |
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Post by MartinT on Jan 6, 2024 11:26:01 GMT
Air-gapping is a good thing - definitely worth a try.
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Tobias
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Post by Tobias on Jan 6, 2024 12:46:40 GMT
Yes, and since it is the very beginning of the physical signal chain it seem to have a really big impact if the down stream signal chain is already improved, i found.
That is at least my way of trying to explain how this £35 wifi extender could have a larger impact than my two £300 ethernet cables had, at least individually. (I was very surprised by those cables as well and found them worth the money...)
Now when that first cable is fed with a much cleaner source (wifi extender->LAN Silencer) that cable is showing its shielding properties by being able to maintain that lower noise signal into the switch, to give the switch less to work with.
That is at least my amateur explanation of this...?
I should say that i don´t have the best switch of course... But the improvement was so big that i would be very surprised if this was not noticed also with an expensive switch in place. But I could be wrong...
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Post by NigelB on Jan 6, 2024 21:42:57 GMT
I'd love to say yes but have never heard one; I love their emphasis on "low noise". As per previous posts, in the ethernet domain (and switches are pure ethernet) only lowering the noise floor can make a difference to sound quality. Clock accuracy can't and I worry when I read of manufacturers speaking if ethernet jitter as if it's the same to-be-exterminated beast which streamer/DAC jitter is; these guys get points for making jitter a sub-bullet! |
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Post by NigelB on Jan 6, 2024 21:44:22 GMT
From what I can see, it's only going to help an already decent low noise switch. You might have been better off with an EtherREGEN as your switch to start with. Why EtherRegen? I know you have one but other makes and models are available, including award-winning ones... |
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