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Post by MartinT on Jul 14, 2018 11:48:34 GMT
That's the right attitude, Mike. A good dealer is worth giving repeat business to in so many ways. It's not always about shopping for the lowest price.
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Post by shuggie on Jul 14, 2018 12:29:56 GMT
There's no 'should' about it. It's entirely up to the dealer if he wishes to spend his time helping someone who isn't a customer. It will likely depend entirely on their attitude towards their business, their wider understanding of marketing and the value of unseen social interactions. Assuming it wasn't going to take an age, and the old guy could in fact get it to work once back home then I'd help him out and send him out the door with his soundbar in one of my branded shop bags. If it was likely to be a connection issue then i'm send him packing with contact details for the supplier, and a shop bag. I agree and it takes far less effort to be nice to people rather than dismissive. That aside, it would be nice if UK audio enthusiasts accepted the need for dealers to make a profit, if they are to remain in business, and to continue offering any form of customer service. Profit margins are not typically as great as UK punters often assume, particularly when taking into account shipping in and out, payment fees etc, let alone the costs of running a business nowadays.
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Post by Slinger on Jul 14, 2018 13:01:56 GMT
Nothing to do with audio, but my 'award' for customer service goes to my local chemist's shop. I've got a bum knee and can only walk using a stick at the moment, and even then not awfully far. Since my wife passed away I have no means of transport, her being the only driver. My local pharmacist has arranged for my monthly prescription (I'm on 23 tablets/day including painkillers) to be delivered to me, either by his wife, or another very nice lady who works in the shop. Obviously, I'm not a special case, they provide this service to other people who are "stuck" too, including my 93-year-old mum. There is no charge for this, and being an old git I don't even pay for my prescriptions any more. Without it, I'd have a lot of faffing around plus cab fares once a month. That, to me, is great customer service. I doubt you'd catch Boots doing it, or any of the big supermarkets that also house pharmacies.
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Post by MikeMusic on Jul 14, 2018 13:37:11 GMT
That's the right attitude, Mike. A good dealer is worth giving repeat business to in so many ways. It's not always about shopping for the lowest price. Some good advice that may get him an order for a more comfortable riding Trek bike with patented shock absorbing. (Road bike, *not* suspension)
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Post by MikeMusic on Jul 14, 2018 13:40:05 GMT
Nothing to do with audio, but my 'award' for customer service goes to my local chemist's shop. I've got a bum knee and can only walk using a stick at the moment, and even then not awfully far. Since my wife passed away I have no means of transport, her being the only driver. My local pharmacist has arranged for my monthly prescription (I'm on 23 tablets/day including painkillers) to be delivered to me, either by his wife, or another very nice lady who works in the shop. Obviously, I'm not a special case, they provide this service to other people who are "stuck" too, including my 93-year-old mum. There is no charge for this, and being an old git I don't even pay for my prescriptions any more. Without it, I'd have a lot of faffing around plus cab fares once a month. That, to me, is great customer service. I doubt you'd catch Boots doing it, or any of the big supermarkets that also house pharmacies. Good on him. Our local pharmacy is so bad I decided to risk Pharmacy2U. Impressive and likely to put a lot of pharmacies out of business.
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Post by zippy on Jul 14, 2018 14:10:07 GMT
I thought most hifi dealers (and others) spend the majority of their time showing/demonstrating equipment that they're pretty much sure the 'customer' has no intention of buying. So I'd say pester the man in the shop IF you bought it from them, otherwise maybe phone the shop first to see if they'll help but don't be disappointed if they say no.
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Post by MikeMusic on Jul 14, 2018 15:34:07 GMT
I had a few too many prospective punters come to us with their problems when I ran my printing company. Spent too long giving free advice with some explaining what they needed to do to make files ready, formatting, true type fonts, embedding fonts, always PDF rather than Word or Excel if you can. Others I forget.
Eventually I learned to be tentative helping them, spending less time sorting them out as too many lost the will. With a small number I had to say "we can't help you" as they were nowhere near the point and impossible to help.
Classic was a multinational Pharmaceutical company who refused to embed their fonts on regulatory documents - new drugs for submission to drug agencies. Legal documents that could have life threatening consequences. If fonts were not embedded then the big printer will substitute (!) Dealing with all sorts of fonts, including scientific meant data and documents were changed. I saw one real example with an alpha changed to a colon - scary. They went to another printer who substituted fonts. Easy fix. Lost a big turnover there for a clean conscience.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2018 22:27:17 GMT
I think there is a difference between help and consultation. If you are a new customer, then there could be a small charge, if you are an existing customer then probably not. But I kind of agree that any Tom, Dick or Harry turning up on your doorstep with something they bought down at the local Lidl retail store asking for help, should be charged. No don't charge them just treat them like this lot !
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Post by davidf on Jul 16, 2018 10:03:58 GMT
“Hi-fi” may have been more of a way of life back in the 60s and 70s, when the only things you could own was a house, a car, a TV, and an audio system of some description. Nowadays, there’s more stuff we can buy to waste our time than we can humanly afford. Nowadays it is one of those hobbies that people rarely talk about, enjoyed by the few. Those wishing to buy a decent audio system are becoming more scarce as years go on, and when the current 40-60 year age group has departed this earth, how long will “hi-fi” have?
Over the last 20 years, footfall has decreased for a number of reasons. I do feel that one of those reasons are the small number of condescending dealers who look down their noses at anyone who walks through he door - except for regulars - pushing the impression that our industry is a very cliquey group that dislike outsiders and treats those who have no clue what they’re talking about as idiots. You could even trace this behaviour as far back as the infamous Not The Nine O’Clock News sketch...
Having worked at a few places previously, I know what the attitudes are like when the example in the first post walks in. This is one of those perfect opportunity to repair the image of this industry has created for itself, but most treat it as some time waster taking the pee. If we were living in the 80s, we can afford to do that, but the reality is that we’re currently reaping what we have sown. I appreciate that that may well not have been the fault of those dealers who have stuck with traditional methods of dealing with people face to face, spending the time getting to know them, building a relationship with them, but that’s the way it is.
High quality dealers out there have a choice of whether to join the masses in their social media spamming and faceless transactions, or do things differently, and show that there are dealers out there that have a sociable manner, and are approachable. Social media is a strong tool, even if you don’t use it, as helping someone out with something for 10 minutes may well get you a mention somewhere, and from that, you may get some extra followers, a sale or two, and some new customers for life. They may well do the same thing, with the possibility of things growing exponentially.
Can the better dealers in this industry turn things round and change the impression most people have about it? We can buy try.
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Post by MartinT on Jul 16, 2018 10:15:28 GMT
Over the last 20 years, footfall has decreased for a number of reasons I think we can all see that effect, from the number of store closures and the expansion of others into AV and computer-related equipment. Gaining a reputation for good service seems to me to be a cost-free action that many salespeople forget. I am often fascinated at the reception I get from car dealerships. I have almost always been taken seriously but I know those who get treated badly for no apparent reason other than appearances. I did once wear a t-shirt and leather jacket to visit a BMW dealership and had no issue with booking a test drive. I asked the salesman out of interest what had made him decide I wasn't a tyre kicker. 'Your watch' was the reply. At least he was honest! So will we see fewer dealerships with a more positive attitude towards customers, or more dealerships moving into 'white goods' (Apple) and other product areas?
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Post by davidf on Jul 16, 2018 10:50:04 GMT
So will we see fewer dealerships with a more positive attitude towards customers, or more dealerships moving into 'white goods' (Apple) and other product areas? The problem is, higher quality dealers are on a faster downward slope than boxshifters, through no fault of their own. People are now growing up with the likes of Amazon, who have made next day delivery the norm for literally anything you care to buy online, so people expect things in stock, and expect them to be delivered tomorrow, if ordered within office hours. But people will wait months for a three-piece suite, or a weeks for a new bathroom or kitchen, or even a car, but electronics they want now, otherwise they can go online and order something to be with them tomorrow. Boxshifters are trying to move with the times, to keep up (can they?), supply demand. This is more in line with the Amazon way of life, so is more of a norm, more acceptable to more people. I think from that that you can see which I think will prevail. The profit margin for the likes of Apple isn’t there for hi-fi dealers - which I heard was about 10%, much like games consoles (dealers have to earn money other ways with packages and/or contracts, in the case of phones. Who would seek out a hi-fi dealer for an iPad anyway? Most will go to an Apple store or John Lewis. Amazon is the modern day Argos catalogue.
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Post by zippy on Jul 16, 2018 12:03:13 GMT
One might also ask whether dealers should perform free firmware upgrades for those who need them (again only for equipment bought at that dealer) (I'm thinking Cyrus streamers here !!)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 12:21:19 GMT
One might also ask whether dealers should perform free firmware upgrades for those who need them (again only for equipment bought at that dealer) (I'm thinking Cyrus streamers here !!) No, that is straightforward to do from home for most brands, so shouldn't need to be done at a dealers IMHO.
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Post by Slinger on Jul 16, 2018 12:46:07 GMT
Unfortunately, much of it comes down to simple economics. Remember that friendly grocer's shop just down the road that your mum or your granny used to use. How many of you have listened to them rhapsodise about "personal service" and how "Mr Jones" would always "see them right" if they were a few bob short one week? When they've finished ask them if they started using Sainsbury's (other grocery giants are available) because Sainsbury's was cheaper, and helped drive Mr Jones out of business, or if they were one of the loyal customers who was still shopping with Mr Jones when Sainsbury's drove him out of business. Either way, the story has the same ending, they're shopping at Sainsbury's now. Whichever business has the lowest purchasing power and the highest outlay will, eventually, be consumed.
We love personal service, but we don't love paying for it. There will always be exceptions to the rule, but generally speaking, the whole developed world is 'becoming' Amazon.
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Post by MartinT on Jul 16, 2018 12:53:12 GMT
One might also ask whether dealers should perform free firmware upgrades for those who need them Back to car dealerships, you'd think the same thing about upgrading car firmware and yet when I asked earlier in the month they looked at me blankly as if to say "you want to do what, now?" I then proceeded to explain that the useless good-for-nothing Subaru entertainment centre could not run a single UK app (like, for instance, Waze) and I wanted it to be upgraded because Subaru, like all the car manufacturers, lock up firmware upgrades behind dealer logins in case we dare to try it ourselves. Frankly, I'm a lot less likely to f*ck it up than a dealer.
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Post by davidf on Jul 16, 2018 12:53:13 GMT
We love personal service, but we don't love paying for it. And that’s generally fine if people are willing to pay the asking price, but even that’s stretching things nowadays. Free personal service with discount seems to be expected.
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Post by zippy on Jul 16, 2018 12:57:21 GMT
One might also ask whether dealers should perform free firmware upgrades for those who need them (again only for equipment bought at that dealer) (I'm thinking Cyrus streamers here !!) No, that is straightforward to do from home for most brands, so shouldn't need to be done at a dealers IMHO. but alas, not Cyrus..
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 13:09:50 GMT
Fair enough, although I don't see that as a Dealer's problem, more of a Cyrus, manufacturer issue.
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Post by MartinT on Jul 16, 2018 13:14:13 GMT
There is a British problem in that people are not prepared to pay for quality. I don't see this as evident in other countries like Germany.
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Post by MikeMusic on Jul 17, 2018 15:38:51 GMT
There is a British problem in that people are not prepared to pay for quality. I don't see this as evident in other countries like Germany. I usually like good, at the best price I can manage. Often 2nd hand Confess to going for cheap on certain items The boss recently bought a couple of Hoselock accessories from her favourite Amazon. Surprised me when she said this was less than half the price in the local garden centre. (no surprise she hadn't checked before though !) Amazon and similar will drive so many shops out of business in all sorts of industries including hifi dealers. I hope Richer Sounds will stick around as they are so good
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