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Post by julesd68 on May 13, 2018 16:01:59 GMT
I have a question for the more technically minded amongst you. When you read the tech specs of a solid state amp, what measurements are of particular interest to you and why? Do these specs give you any clues as to how that amp will perform in your system? Do they give you an idea of its quality and how it might sound? I'm asking as sometimes I get the urge to try an amp that I and others have never heard before, and would like to know if it's possible to take some of the guesswork out of buying ...
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2018 16:30:07 GMT
1) Output power and range depending on load, this can give you a clue about its ability to handle difficult loads 2) The various distortion figures, again depending on the class of amplifier, this can give a bit of a clue 3) Type of output device
Really these will only give you a clue and will not really tell you how it will sound within a system and the resultin© synergy or lack of it
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Post by jandl100 on May 13, 2018 16:41:24 GMT
Nope, specs are no good for deducing how a piece of electronics will sound.
You just have to give it a listen, I'm afraid.
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Post by julesd68 on May 13, 2018 17:23:51 GMT
Indeed, that's what I would think but I'm just wondering if anything in the specs can be handy in terms of ruling something out ...
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Post by MartinT on May 13, 2018 17:31:45 GMT
There isn't much I would look for except maximum instantaneous current ability (not power).
Rarely do specs tally with what I hear.
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Post by ChrisB on May 13, 2018 17:38:53 GMT
I wouldn't expect your Tannoys would present much of a problem to many amps Jules, so you are never going to need a skull crushing sludge pump (SCSP © ) of an amp.
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Post by MartinT on May 13, 2018 17:42:30 GMT
...on the other hand, big drivers generally need bigger control.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2018 17:50:54 GMT
I wouldn't expect your Tannoys would present much of a problem to many amps Jules, so you are never going to need a skull crushing sludge pump (SCSP © ) of an amp. Unless you are trying to drive 15" Tannoys with say an SET valve amp, in which case the specs will tell you that in most cases they will flap like a shite house door in the wind.
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Post by jandl100 on May 13, 2018 18:03:56 GMT
Someone who's knowledge in the subject I trust reckons that some electronic components have characteristic sounds - e.g. Solen coupling caps are a bit harsh compared to more poorly specced polyester caps.
Me? I dunno - but this guy has tried lots of different types and believes he has learned which do what in a fairly reliable way. "I've tried almost every coupling cap known to man In various amplifiers/cd players"
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Post by julesd68 on May 13, 2018 18:07:17 GMT
...on the other hand, big drivers generally need bigger control. Exactly. They are very efficient but not as easy to match as you might think - I've had several amp 'failures' with my Tannoys. Bass grip is one issue - solid state or tube amps can come unstuck here. The other is that they need more juice than you might think - especially reproducing music with very wide dynamic range as often found in classical music.
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Post by yomanze on May 14, 2018 12:01:07 GMT
Watts don’t tell us much, nor does THD.
What I am interested in on paper is high instantaneous current delivery, because this is what gives amps drive with extremely demanding music like drum & bass, or metal. However, it still needs to sound good with acoustic or simple music.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2018 15:47:41 GMT
Transient current response torque not horse power! Mind you at Munich there were plenty of amplifiers with traction engine performance yet they seem to imbibe all that is bad with solid state Once again Magico managed to take the award for least inspiring, solid 2 dimensional up front sound on the new S5's impressively worthy of a contender for most overpriced under performing over 350K Euro sound system also in this illustrious group, the MBL room with the big radar detectors. I have heard this room sound much better, but on Sunday it was ripe, disjointed, lacking any real insightfullnes also very muddy too, bass the usual standard. Normally this room is much better, not a fan of MBL however they can sound much better than yesterday! (384K euros) The Tidal room had a modest 180K euro system playing with a new affordable range starting at 22K for the speakers, spend a lot of time in this room having a chat to Doug nice American chap who could sell nva electronics to normal people such was his powers of persuasion! Really do not get the sound at all, more hifi that Magico, again still all leading edge no texture, I could see why a few well heeled ex naimies could be cajoled into the brand. Lovely build quality, absolutely first class, just not for me, however was ahead of the Magico room! The new big Moon mono's, Raidho flagship speakers and more nordost odin 2 that you could weave a thatched cottage together with. Not good! but still in contention for the prize. Another room, Rockport speakers and Solution/ Constellation whooo pretty dire music choice and sound, the amps are better than this just so disjointed. Full marks to the Meitner room, they had all their own electronics on show, again naff music but at least in was coherent, not harsh or up front, a bit safe but they put in a creditable performance. Kondo had a truly awful sound, which is not usually the case, however they were being played through a pair of butt ugly two way standmounts with a ribbon tweeter that had as much integration as May's Brexit war cabinet never had I heard a speaker deliver genuinely two aspects of the sound at totally different times, the treble you could could rival Naim speakers yet product an even less incoherent sound. Bass wasn't so much lacking, more of mis timing but about 2.5 weeks, in fact a pair of Neat ultimatum 9's been powered by a flea amp would sound more convincing. Truly one of the worst sounds I have ever heard a public event and the designer was raving' best speaker for 10K euro's at this show! the poor guy from Kondo was so diplomatic, I really would have closed the room it was pants. Again a lot of ££ worth of Kondo. Got back very late last night due to thunder storm at Munich, which for me is the highlight of the show, Happily live in Munich no problem at all Images tomorrow Overall a very disappointing show for sound quality. Mind you it didn't stop Roy Gregory (now with the online Audibeat magazine) performing some deep crevasse cleansing in the Magico room with the companies owner, he played some vinyl which also sounded pretty grim. It really was a sheer assault on the senses, a few people in the room exclaiming wow, though they had been listening to Marshall headphones before hand! It reminded me of Naim of yesteryear ala six packs and DBL's just slightly more refined and some large better built drivers. Oh how things have moved on Even my good friend Andrew Jones in the Elac room with there flagship models powered by Burmester 911 mono's not good his speakers deserve better, again a solid pile driving up front all out attack sound very, very few systems actually produced a natural involving sound, those that did interestingly were use really good two way monitors and medium floor standers. Thats all for now Ken K was also schmoozing with AJ from SME and the new little TT they have just launched
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Post by TheMooN on May 14, 2018 18:43:03 GMT
Nope, specs are no good for deducing how a piece of electronics will sound. You just have to give it a listen, I'm afraid. I quite agree, However a set of basic specifications are useful in evaluating whether item A should synergise well with item B . I am naturally suspicious of manufacturers that neglect or refuse to publish such specifications, especially under the arrogant conceit that potential customers are incapable of interperating said specifications...
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Post by MartinT on May 14, 2018 20:46:52 GMT
Thanks for the laugh, Tony.
What is it about Magico speakers? I have never heard them sound better than dire. All that money for that cold, clinical and soulless sound. I would truly cry if I were stupid enough to buy them in the first place.
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Post by julesd68 on May 14, 2018 21:55:06 GMT
a ribbon tweeter that had as much integration as May's Brexit war cabinet Priceless!
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Post by julesd68 on May 15, 2018 19:50:37 GMT
How big a factor is ‘damping factor’ in terms of controlling larger drivers?
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Post by MartinT on May 15, 2018 20:20:30 GMT
It helps, but instantaneous current is still a better measure.
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Post by yomanze on May 18, 2018 12:50:05 GMT
Someone who's knowledge in the subject I trust reckons that some electronic components have characteristic sounds - e.g. Solen coupling caps are a bit harsh compared to more poorly specced polyester caps. Me? I dunno - but this guy has tried lots of different types and believes he has learned which do what in a fairly reliable way. "I've tried almost every coupling cap known to man In various amplifiers/cd players" Often the only major changes in LFD gear are capacitor, resistor and wiring changes. They believe that the components themselves are what dictate the sound of a circuit, with some sounding ‘special’, like old lateral MOSFETs, mixtures of different capacitors, or tantalum resistors in certain places.
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Post by yomanze on May 18, 2018 12:54:57 GMT
It helps, but instantaneous current is still a better measure. Yep, and painfully thin on the ground with regard to companies publishing this. My amp is 90W into 8R, on paper medium power, but has 25A instantaneous current delivery, which is very high.
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Post by MartinT on May 18, 2018 13:00:06 GMT
My Belles similarly is spec'd at 100W per channel (actually 200Wpc for my 4 ohm Ushers) but can output 32A.
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