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Post by Slinger on Apr 1, 2018 12:50:54 GMT
I've done the unthinkable; something that everyone tells everyone else they should never do. I've bought an amp without ever hearing an example of the brand, let alone the model. As the title suggests it's a Primare I21. It's pretty, as per the thread I started yesterday, and I got it for a smidge over £325.00. The seller describes it as " absolutely mint condition" and [it] " comes complete with remote control, original box and all packaging and is literally in as new condition." Needless to say, it comes from the ubiquitous " no kids and pet free home," as well. The seller also mentioned that he has had the amp from new. One careful owner? Obviously, I read as many reviews and opinions online as I could find. One reported negative that I read was that the Primare may be too "polite" for some. I've owned and enjoyed various Arcam amps (Alpha 2, Alpha 8 and 8p, A75) so "polite" is probably going to be OK for me. I'll be using it with my epos 11s, which are currently hooked up with Chord LeyLine 2 which will probably get swapped out for some Monster Z2R I have...or something completely different. I've just received an email with shipping info and telling me that the amp has been dropped off and will hopefully (apparently it's Easter) be picked up by DPD tomorrow. Now I suppose it's cross-my-fingers-and-hope time. Any words of advice, comfort, etc. will be gratefully received. I won't mind if you tell me I'm an idiot either, but if the amp's condition is as good as the buyer says and at the price I paid, I can probably recoup most, if not all, of my money by reselling it if the experiment is a failure.
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Post by MartinT on Apr 1, 2018 13:04:29 GMT
<comfort>Well, I hope that it works out well for you, Paul.</comfort>
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Post by John on Apr 1, 2018 13:18:21 GMT
Tried one in my system years ago It was the top of the range model Did not purchase Great with female vocals (lush would be a good description) but did not sound great with rock. Think one of those amps that divide opinion No idea what this sounds like
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2018 13:20:37 GMT
I've never had of heard any Primare, but I reckon you're pretty safe with this purchase.
1 you've bought what would appear to be the best possible example out there 2. It's in its manufacturers packing, so it's likley to be safe in transit and insurers cannot argue it wasn't packed well enough in the event of a claim. 3. The seller, by saying he bought from new, has ruled out any possible unknown "history". 4. Better condition items sell much easier and for more money, especially boxed ones. You will very likely be able to sell on without loss if it's not your thing. 5. In any eventuality, you will have gained experience of a brand and a product in your own home. It beats "shop time" all ends up.
I worked in a hifi shop and hearing kit there was nowhere near as valuable as trying it at home. Most of the bits I've bought over the years were unheard previously, unless i had owned the same thing previously. Buying used means you hardly ever make a loss unless you pay too much or buy something hard to shift in the first place.
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Post by Slinger on Apr 1, 2018 13:29:55 GMT
<comfort>Well, I hope that it works out well for you, Paul.</comfort> Many thanks for that genuine and heartfelt outpouring of good wishes, Martin.
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Post by MartinT on Apr 1, 2018 14:12:10 GMT
Looks like I forgot to add the <genuine> tag
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Post by MikeMusic on Apr 1, 2018 15:14:24 GMT
Fingers crossed Paul
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Post by dsjr on Apr 1, 2018 16:17:02 GMT
I remember spending time in the dem room with a brand new one, or one of its very close period relatives and looking inside, it's all transformer which bodes well Sonically, if it has a 'sound' at all, I'd say it's on the 'clear as a bell' side. Not at all hard or harsh I remember, but clean and precise in a way that'll show any shortcomings elsewhere further back in the chain. With the right gear it'll sound musical enough and it should disappear from the music with any luck. Romantic and restrained it certainly isn't as I remember and neither is it all 'point-n-squirt' as period Naims were either. I liked it a lot and remember the matching CD player with great fondness too - this latter NEEDING to run on for a few hours before it opened up. Obviously both items are in their teenage years now I suspect, so shouldn't have too much 'attitude' to them.
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Post by ChrisB on Apr 2, 2018 5:18:14 GMT
I think making a purchase like this is fairly safe really. It's not like it cost a crippling amount and it won't have depreciated if you decide it's not for you. If you haven't sold the amp you are replacing it with yet, then you will be able to go back to where you are now, no harm done. You will also have the opportunity to put your current amp back in the system after the honeymoon period with the Primare in a couple of weeks, to confirm whether it really is a step up or not. The result of doing that is sometimes very enlightening.
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Post by Slinger on Apr 2, 2018 12:14:19 GMT
Thanks, Dave. I knew I could rely on your experience. I've seen pics of the internals and I know what you mean by "all transformer" In fact, for anyone who hasn't seen inside one... Chris, you mention a lot of the points that I used to convince myself I should buy it sight unseen, as it were. The system it's going into has had an Arcam 8+8p combo, then it became my cheapo Chinese concoction and now an Arcam A75 is in situ pro tem. Cables have also changed, as have sources, so it's a bit of a Trigger's Broom arrangement. The only constant has been the ES 11s. I am expecting it to be a step up from all of that, despite me being one of those weird creatures who has always liked Arcam.
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Post by julesd68 on Apr 2, 2018 16:49:22 GMT
Looks like they only gave you half the amp Paul ...
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Post by MartinT on Apr 2, 2018 17:02:57 GMT
Toroids have little stray field but those heatsinks will help to isolate it from the amplifier circuit.
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Post by Slinger on Apr 2, 2018 17:13:57 GMT
There's a top-down shot that show the internal layout a little better...
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Post by dsjr on Apr 3, 2018 13:09:06 GMT
It's a long time ago for me, but the Alpha 8/8P were a hard toned ringy mess, although bi-amping took some of the listener fatigue away I recall (you can blame the WTF rave reviews on the horrible Marantz PM66KI model for this as Arcam needed to compete to get the 5 stars - yep, it was really as cut-throat as this back then).
The A75 was in a tamer and more refined era I think when WTF was losing it's lead in mag reviews. I think it was this one, or maybe the A85, but I think the sound went less 'impactful' but possibly slightly bland as well if you weren't careful?
The Primare should sit comfortably on top of this as it was always in a higher echelon in terms of price and performance I remember. Be careful with cabling. Of the ones 'we' both should know backwards now, the mid level ones would definitely be better for it than the standard 'single run' one for example as they flesh the music out better for an amp like this I suspect and the basic 'installation speaker cable' is far better than most from QED or Chord Co in my experience... I don't think many sub £100 shop-bought interconnect cables or speaker cables under £20/m would be un-coloured enough. The Mark Grant mains cables are excellent for most purposes and you really needn't spend more than the fifty quid he charges for his...
I'm trying to carefully speak in more 'musical choices' terms and not be accused of shilling NVA stuff. As a 'High Fidelity' product, this amp should work with almost anything, but too much of a 'bright and shiny-clear' source and cabling may tip it over the top towards an overly unmusical and 'deeeeetailed' sound. Like some of the once Copland cousins/competition (they shared a factory once I understand), it's capable of an almost holographic image, but I'm trying to keep the musical aspects too and not stripping them away in the process for a better 'sound.'
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Post by Slinger on Apr 3, 2018 13:58:03 GMT
Thanks, Dave. Despite my best intentions I seem to have 'collected' quite a lot of interconnect cables to test before I think about purchasing any more, and CD players from NAD, Marantz, and TEAC to slot in and out, although I am also 'watching' a couple on eBay that might be older, but slightly higher-end than my current selection. I mentioned in my "speaker cable" thread I've got NVA LS1 and LS3 at home in my primary system so I can probably swap those in and out without too much hassle to see what effect they have, plus some Monster Z2R which, as I remarked in t'other thread, is "about the same thickness as some of those telecommunications cables under the Atlantic." All told I'll have plenty to play with before I hit my wallet up again, unless...
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Post by Slinger on Apr 3, 2018 14:48:50 GMT
Just an idle thought, but perhaps I should keep one of my 'spare' CD players, probably the (built like a tank) Marantz 6003, and try it with my current Chinese DAC against the TC-7530DC Bushmaster I have, or even pair it with the newer SEG, eventually.
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Post by dsjr on Apr 3, 2018 18:42:59 GMT
LS3 is thicker than LS1 and would suit better in this application. If you could, I'd trade against LS5 or higher. This particular amp will thank you for it methinks.....
Not sure about some of these DACs. Today, I think you can do so much for so little it makes me think that many manufacturers have to 'alter' the sound to make some kind of sonic statement... I wonder if the 6003 wouldn't beat the lot of add-on boxes perhaps? I have to say the el-cheapo DAC I have sounds very acceptable indeed with a large linear supply and I don't worry about it any more (I can't describe properly how I *feel* about 'musicality' in audio playback, but I know it when I hear it and deeply miss it when it's not there...).
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Post by Slinger on Apr 4, 2018 12:14:21 GMT
The Beast (and I confer that title on it advisedly) has arrived and was extremely well packed. I'm sitting at the computer in the midst of a living-room that now looks like a bomb site, with cardboard, plastic, and polystyrene everywhere and with several discs that are surely freshly herniated. I'm 64 and I had a bad back and buggered knees before I started hauling it about. When did 11kg get so heavy?
Anywho, I've plumbed it straight in, changing nothing in the rest of the setup for the moment. There was momentary panic until I realised that the batteries in the remote were dead. Fortunately, I keep copious amounts of pre-charged AAA and AA rechargeables about the place. Problem solved. Self-satisfied smile achieved.
First impressions - despite the veil of pain I am listening through, due to the muscular and skeletal injuries that The Beast has inflicted upon me...I am in a state of happy bunny-ness. I don't do the "inky blackness" or "bleeding-edge transients" techno-babble bollox so, in my considered opinion, it's a fair sized improvement that will be improved upon even further when I get around to sorting my cabling out. When I can stand up straight again. Honestly, even the young, fit, courier struggled a little. Of course, he was carrying it one-handed, the smug git!
I am currently enjoying both the sit-down and Lenny B's Mahler 5.
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Post by MartinT on Apr 4, 2018 12:42:33 GMT
Is it replacing an Arcam, Paul, or were you running something else meanwhile? Remote batteries dead? Not exactly tested before despatch, then. Glad it's cutting the sonic mustard for you. We expect, nay demand, a full paragraph of techno-babble about its sound quality, please! Don't forget to play music on it, not a test signal
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Post by ChrisB on Apr 4, 2018 13:04:50 GMT
And feel free to quote liberally from the Primare press release - you're retired, so you don't want to be working too hard to earn a shilling!
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