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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 21:02:43 GMT
I can think of plenty flawed bits, but "fatally" is a bit strong. For instance I've lost count of the number of Xerxes I've owned and only come across a couple with tiny plinth sag, which was easily sorted, definitely a flaw though, and something that could've been avoided with either a slight redesign of the cutout or use of a diffent material. Still the best sounding deck I've owned and every bit as pitch stable as a Sony PS6750 in direct comparison.
No worse though than the pendulum Spring arrangement on the LP12 and the sub-chassis design which failed to locate the bearing in the center of gravity. Then we have the lack of adjustability from the top. Also the crappy screw arrangement to hold the armboard. All flaws, but not fatal because it can still make enjoyable music with a bit of effort.
I guess I'd regard a product that invariably kept blowing up as fatally flawed. I'm sure there may have been one or two, I'm probably not best placed to make those sort of claims about any piece of kit though. I'm sure dealers might have a better idea on that one.
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richb
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Post by richb on Feb 7, 2018 23:36:37 GMT
Hi Stu It had the ability to truly destroy music without trying, we used to keep one around the lab to revert back to just to see how bad reproduced sound could be! I believe my former business partners still have said unit! Another quite grim component Kef Ref 205 for the mid 2000's another product with Zero redeeming features. Another vote for Naim speakers, utter cack, the worst possible, a tie up between SL2's Ovator 600's and Arriva's the unholy trinity of truly grim speaker design. Ruark Broadswords, tripe personified 84Db sensitivity and a nominal impedance close to that of Apogee's, an inductor close to size of my fist!, made meridian sound pacy! You need a solid 150Wrms and 25+ amps to move the bloody things. Fire up those slippers Mr Mogadon  The Pioneer A400 integrated amp, WTF was all the fuss about? even the so called evans? upgraded unit, they could strip paint off a Rolls Royce at 50 paces, pair up with Naim SL2's and you have just about best non evasive ear wax removal this side of a good steam clean at the Doctors. Re the A400 we were young and naive. With a pair of Mission 760se mine was a party animal in its day.Good times. |
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Post by ChrisB on Feb 8, 2018 8:10:41 GMT
The Audio Innovations Series 500 amp was a disaster initially. The return rate of faulty units to the factory was over 100% because some failed twice.
I read about it at the time and later asked Guy Sargeant to confirm (which he did) whether the story was true. They managed to keep it quiet and pulled the situation round and I suppose that amp is regarded as a bit of a cherished classic by now.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 9:26:20 GMT
The Rega Kyte loudspeakers I had, could come under the flawed components description, well, certainly in the system I had at the time.
They had a whole raft of sibilance which made for such an unpleasant sound, I sold them within a month of purchasing them and went back to my previous Wharfedale Diamond II speakers, which didn't have the same level of detail but were a darn sight easier and more pleasant to listen to.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 10:18:53 GMT
Re the A400 we were young and naive. With a pair of Mission 760se mine was a party animal in its day.Good times. Morning Rich No I was still relatively young and my main concern was keeping my hearing in tact so I could still perform my part time job at that point. I still have one of these 'fabled' amp in storage, party central at the time was an original Belles Soloists and a pair of Ditton 66's, it wasn't until the mid 90's I discovered Krell / Wilsons and Wadia, and then pretty quickly the forma two were dropped sharpish as musical engagement became paramount. A very controversial one Quad stats' sure I will get shot for this but, 57's so what? even in quad stacked form with expensive valves, sorry too much missing, though the 989's weren't bad had a pair for a few years in my lab, but the later 2905's utter wrongness on grand scale. Linn Kabor's with the keystone's great fire wood and a free piece of decorative stone thrown in. |
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Post by MartinT on Feb 8, 2018 10:32:15 GMT
I believe from a past owner that TVA valve amps were, umm, somewhat unreliable.
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Post by ChrisB on Feb 8, 2018 10:50:37 GMT
I think the bigger ones were more reliable but the TVA1 was, as I implied above, by most accounts, best kept in a room with a usable escape route!
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Post by julesd68 on Feb 8, 2018 11:25:14 GMT
They had a whole raft of sibilance which made for such an unpleasant sound, I sold them within a month of purchasing them and went back to my previous Wharfedale Diamond II speakers, which didn't have the same level of detail but were a darn sight easier and more pleasant to listen to. Nowt wrong with Diamonds Paul! I had a couple of early pairs as a teenager - they made a fab sound for such a small box, loved 'em. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 11:44:49 GMT
Re the A400 we were young and naive. With a pair of Mission 760se mine was a party animal in its day.Good times. Morning Rich No I was still relatively young and my main concern was keeping my hearing in tact so I could still perform my part time job at that point. I still have one of these 'fabled' amp in storage, party central at the time was an original Belles Soloists and a pair of Ditton 66's, it wasn't until the mid 90's I discovered Krell / Wilsons and Wadia, and then pretty quickly the forma two were dropped sharpish as musical engagement became paramount. A very controversial one Quad stats' sure I will get shot for this but, 57's so what? even in quad stacked form with expensive valves, sorry too much missing, though the 989's weren't bad had a pair for a few years in my lab, but the later 2905's utter wrongness on grand scale. Linn Kabor's with the keystone's great fire wood and a free piece of decorative stone thrown in. Kabers are a speaker that I just can't see merit in. They have a "chalk across a blackboard" screechiness, yet they are dull and recessed. The sound never seems to get out of the box. I've heard them many times passive and twice in active form. My best mate decided to buy a full Kaber Aktiv setup and it lasted no more than a week. I've heard hundreds of systems in his listening room and the Kabers in passive and Activ have been by far the most unpleasant. It fascinates me that some people must like them. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 12:49:36 GMT
They had a whole raft of sibilance which made for such an unpleasant sound, I sold them within a month of purchasing them and went back to my previous Wharfedale Diamond II speakers, which didn't have the same level of detail but were a darn sight easier and more pleasant to listen to. Nowt wrong with Diamonds Paul! I had a couple of early pairs as a teenager - they made a fab sound for such a small box, loved 'em. Yeah I have a pair of Diamond IV's in my office system that produce amazing sounds. Even better I bought them for £30 off of someone from ebay  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2018 18:33:21 GMT
I believe from a past owner that TVA valve amps were, umm, somewhat unreliable. I had two, one self combusted and the other never work for more than 30 minutes on the left channel, like a man getting a family and a mortgage, it drifted rapidly to the right. But for really flawed kit don’t forget the Strathearn Audio debacle. The speakers were total shite except for the tweeters, but the turntables were unbelievable. Designed by a Cambridge consultancy the featured an almost torque free direct drive motor that the design company, PATS, had originally developed for Mettoy to go in a toy roundabout. When driven with enough power to play a record it rumbled to hell and back, performing much worse than the much cheaper Pioneer PL12d. The party piece was to start backwards and dump the stylus on the record, thus destroying it. The company was set up by the government to provide jobs in Northern Ireland. Not only was the kit crap, it cost tens if not hundreds of millions of taxpayers cash and went bust in about threed years. |
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Post by MartinT on Feb 10, 2018 23:18:56 GMT
It sounds rather like DeLorean.
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Post by ChrisB on Feb 10, 2018 23:25:04 GMT
I have always thought of it as the gambler's turntable: "What are the odds of it turning in the right direction this time?"
It was a rather marvellous creation!
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Post by MartinT on Feb 10, 2018 23:29:07 GMT
The Connoisseur BD1 could be like that, which is why it featured a little kick-start on the knob to get it rotating the right way. It also acted as a brake to stop the platter quickly.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2018 0:22:23 GMT
It sounds rather like DeLorean. Totally and there were also rumours, that both companies ended up paying government cash in protection money to paramilitaries. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2018 13:55:30 GMT
Oh, how could I forget, Musical Fodelity Nu Vista 3D. Cheap Taiwanese mech that lasted a matter of months. No spares at MF and none available elsewhere A 3k plus player that was only useful as a door stop. I think there have been subsequent mods to get them going again, but MF really took a lot of flack.
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Post by dsjr on Feb 11, 2018 14:09:48 GMT
Naim Nait 3 integrated amplifier, zero redeeming features even for naimies! I think it sounds ok. Pioneer CD into Nait 3 and Linn Saras Will check again WHAT? ? The Nait 3 and internally similar 92/90 pre-power were a laughing stock amongst Naim dealers at the time, let alone anyone else, especially if said dealers had access to other amps and retained an open mind... If the Nait 3 had the pre-power sockets installed (they didn't want you to do this but it's easily done) and a Flat-cap added, it just about became acceptable but the price was stupid for the sonics on offer - we found an original Rega Clamshell Mira a rather better overall amp for instance and the Myryad MI-120 in a different plane of existence I recall...
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Post by dsjr on Feb 11, 2018 14:15:18 GMT
Ummm - Strathearn turntables.... the choice of 'direct drive' motor was a disaster as it was never intended for constant 33 or 45 drive, the structures were very flimsy and the firm was a money pit I seem to remember. They did make a speaker for a short while with a planar mid-hf and cone bass and all that was needed was some serious work on the bass integration as the mid and top were sublime amongst its peers. I think the company was euthanized before the concept could be developed further...
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Post by TheMooN on Feb 11, 2018 14:30:24 GMT
Oh, how could I forget, Musical Fodelity Nu Vista 3D. Cheap Taiwanese mech that lasted a matter of months. No spares at MF and none available elsewhere A 3k plus player that was only useful as a door stop. I think there have been subsequent mods to get them going again, but MF really took a lot of flack. Weeeeeel I can only speak for myself, however I have been running an MF NV 3D since purchase from new getting on for 20 years ago and whilst I would agree the tray mech is a tad cheap and a cost cutting exercise in a not inexpensive machine, mine hasn't missed a beat and still performs very well sonically, I must be one of the lucky. |
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Post by MikeMusic on Feb 11, 2018 15:38:07 GMT
I think it sounds ok. Pioneer CD into Nait 3 and Linn Saras Will check again WHAT?? The Nait 3 and internally similar 92/90 pre-power were a laughing stock amongst Naim dealers at the time, let alone anyone else, especially if said dealers had access to other amps and retained an open mind... If the Nait 3 had the pre-power sockets installed (they didn't want you to do this but it's easily done) and a Flat-cap added, it just about became acceptable but the price was stupid for the sonics on offer - we found an original Rega Clamshell Mira a rather better overall amp for instance and the Myryad MI-120 in a different plane of existence I recall...
I found it better than the Nait 2. Will compare again. So I could beat the 3 with a cheap Chinese amp then ? |
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? The Nait 3 and internally similar 92/90 pre-power were a laughing stock amongst Naim dealers at the time, let alone anyone else, especially if said dealers had access to other amps and retained an open mind... If the Nait 3 had the pre-power sockets installed (they didn't want you to do this but it's easily done) and a Flat-cap added, it just about became acceptable but the price was stupid for the sonics on offer - we found an original Rega Clamshell Mira a rather better overall amp for instance and the Myryad MI-120 in a different plane of existence I recall...
