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Post by MartinT on Jan 17, 2018 10:38:43 GMT
It's not personal, Dave, I'm trying to establish what research outcome is going to 'please almost everyone'. Sometimes you have a cryptic writing style that obfuscates your intended meaning  |
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Post by DaveC on Jan 17, 2018 10:42:31 GMT
It's not personal, Dave, I'm trying to establish what research outcome is going to 'please almost everyone'. The research outcome will be printed and therefore established next week. BTW I thought your comment on me was 100% personal, but I'll let that go now. |
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Post by MartinT on Jan 17, 2018 11:07:57 GMT
BTW I thought your comment on me was 100% personal, but I'll let that go now. You're entitled to your own opinion. I asked you a direct question, whether you had ever used (let alone measured) a P10 personally. I take your lack of reply to mean you haven't. My comment was based on the above. |
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Post by DaveC on Jan 17, 2018 11:24:59 GMT
"an engineer who rates himself above all others (Cawley)" is personal. Will you let this drop now ? I'll happily take no further replies as yes.
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Post by MartinT on Jan 17, 2018 11:40:20 GMT
I'm going to spell it out for you, Dave:
You made engineering level comments on a product which, by your own admission, you have neither listened to nor tested. You more than implied that the P10 is either unfit for its duties or that mine is in some way defective. All without even looking at one.
I feel justified in suggesting, therefore, that you set yourself above other engineers.
Now, if I have got any of the facts above wrong I'll be more than happy to withdraw my comments.
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Post by DaveC on Jan 17, 2018 11:53:58 GMT
Now, if I have got any of the facts above wrong I'll be more than happy to withdraw my comments. It's too late to withdraw your unsubstantiated comments, they are in print on other forums and cannot be removed. However as I have said twice now, I'll reveal all next week when I have the full information from all the engineers involved in my past comments. You will not push or persuade me to do otherwise, that would be recklessness on my behalf. I don't know why you are protesting so much, especially when I have suggested "The outcome of my research is likely to please almost everyone" and that will include you. |
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Post by MartinT on Jan 17, 2018 11:56:40 GMT
I await with baited breath.
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Post by sq225917 on Jan 17, 2018 18:52:58 GMT
I'll be interested to hear what they report Dave. At a guess I'd assume more than a couple of volts of DC would be enough to push that big transformer close to saturation and lead to a clipped/skewed AC on the secondary that had audible results downstream. Of course it could be something else entirely, even user bias.
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Post by pinkie on Jan 17, 2018 19:31:30 GMT
A couple of volts?
Who has measured properly a couple of volts dc offset on their domestic mains ?
A couple of hundred millivolts maybe
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Post by julesd68 on Feb 1, 2018 17:05:41 GMT
Now, if I have got any of the facts above wrong I'll be more than happy to withdraw my comments. It's too late to withdraw your unsubstantiated comments, they are in print on other forums and cannot be removed. However as I have said twice now, I'll reveal all next week when I have the full information from all the engineers involved in my past comments. You will not push or persuade me to do otherwise, that would be recklessness on my behalf. I don't know why you are protesting so much, especially when I have suggested "The outcome of my research is likely to please almost everyone" and that will include you. Excellent - I presume you are now ready to share your research Dave? I am sure everyone would be interested to read it at this point of the discussion. |
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Post by DaveC on Feb 1, 2018 18:32:42 GMT
After the rudeness from TAS members today ? Come and see me at the Bristol Show and I!ll tell all. BTW I did speak at length to the engineers at PS Audio.
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Post by julesd68 on Feb 1, 2018 19:09:14 GMT
Hmm, that's a shame.
There's nearly 500 members here, how many have upset you?
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Post by sq225917 on Feb 4, 2018 14:29:43 GMT
Infamy, Infamy... ;-)
Cheers Dave, I'll just jump in the car and make a 600 mile round trip to hear 2nd hand info on a product that I can home demo and measure for myself and that you've never even seen....
FFS, we can all use email.
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Post by TheMooN on Feb 4, 2018 15:01:28 GMT
After the rudeness from TAS members today ? Come and see me at the Bristol Show and I!ll tell all. BTW I did speak at length to the engineers at PS Audio. Lol, how faintly precious. |
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Post by MartinT on Feb 4, 2018 17:21:46 GMT
I'll reveal all next week when I have the full information from all the engineers involved in my past comments. . . "The outcome of my research is likely to please almost everyone"After the rudeness from TAS members today ? Come and see me at the Bristol Show and I!ll tell all. BTW I did speak at length to the engineers at PS Audio. Dave I simply don't know how to respond to you. You seem to think I'm being rude just because you make claims here on TAS and I've called you out on them. I have asked whether you have ever actually looked at or measured a P10 and I got no response. You claim to have spoken to PS Audio, well I've chatted with Paul McGowan on a couple of occasions, so what? You've suggested that all will be revealed and kept us waiting for this huge revelation. Now you say that you're not going to tell us after all. Your flavour of cryptic comes across as childish smoke and mirrors because I have nothing else to base my opinion on. You hint at awesome knowledge but give us nothing. Well, do you have something to say or not? What is the point of even continuing with your mind games? Why are you here on TAS? Meanwhile, I've owned three generations of PS Audio regenerators and have a pretty good handle on what they do for a system. |
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Post by pinkie on Feb 4, 2018 17:23:17 GMT
I don't think I can make Bristol due to a need to be over for my parents house move and my sons wedding. I could send Arthur along...
I'd love to hear what ps audio said about their £5000 dc blocker needing a £400 dc blocker in the front to work properly. I wonder if they'll put it in their product literature
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Post by The Brookmeister on Feb 4, 2018 22:52:37 GMT
I don't think I can make Bristol due to a need to be over for my parents house move and my sons wedding. I could send Arthur along... I'd love to hear what ps audio said about their £5000 dc blocker needing a £400 dc blocker in the front to work properly. I wonder if they'll put it in their product literature The P10 works perfectly well powered with a standard kettle lead and is a hugely successful product. It works properly as does all their equipment. Some customers have fitted better power leads and or dc blockers and reported an improvement, this is no different a scenario to any item of equipment. Pinkie why do you write such crap? |
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Post by pinkie on Feb 5, 2018 14:39:04 GMT
I don't think I can make Bristol due to a need to be over for my parents house move and my sons wedding. I could send Arthur along... I'd love to hear what ps audio said about their £5000 dc blocker needing a £400 dc blocker in the front to work properly. I wonder if they'll put it in their product literature The P10 works perfectly well powered with a standard kettle lead and is a hugely successful product. It works properly as does all their equipment. Some customers have fitted better power leads and or dc blockers and reported an improvement, this is no different a scenario to any item of equipment. Pinkie why do you write such crap? I disagree chief. A fancy kettle lead is a designer item. A DC blocker carries out a specific function - removing unwanted DC from an AC power source. It may be valid to use a DC blocker to enable otherwise unprotected audio products like amplifiers , DAC's and turntables to run without impairment. The purpose of those products is to make music It is completely different for a product whose purpose is to allow you to control the power you supply to the products which make the music. PS have the following claim for their product "The PerfectWave P10 Power Plant takes your incoming AC power and converts it to DC, similar to what comes out of a battery, and then with patented PS Audio technology regenerates and produces new sine-wave-perfect, regulated high current AC power. In the process of regeneration any problems on your power line such as low voltage, distorted waveforms, sagging power and noise are eliminated." That is a specific product claim that "any problems on your power line ... are eliminated". The fact that DC offset is not one of the "for instances" changes nothing. A false claim according to you and your customers, who report that any DC problem on your power line will cause the device NOT to function optimally, and therefore not to eliminate any problem, but to produce power which is audibly inferior. Note, they do not claim to improve the power, or attenuate problems. The specific claim is to eliminate power problems. That must surely include DC offset. That is not consistent with requiring a DC blocker to be fitted in front for the regenerator to work in a normal domestic situation That you have wealthy customers happy to spend freely on gizmos which promise to enhance their enjoyment of the hobby is not a surprise - that aspect of human behavior has been observed by Hans Christian Anderson and is widely recognised. But that does not make it acceptable to make product claims like "any problems on your power line are eliminated" when that is apparently untrue. If Dave Cawley (what apt initials!) won't share with us, I might ask them myself. |
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Post by MartinT on Feb 5, 2018 16:05:54 GMT
"The PerfectWave P10 Power Plant takes your incoming AC power and converts it to DC, similar to what comes out of a battery, and then with patented PS Audio technology regenerates and produces new sine-wave-perfect, regulated high current AC power. No, it doesn't. Quite obviously, their marketing department have changed what they write to make sales easier and/or simpler to explain. I've already said (several times now) that the P10 is a waveform repairer, using a tracking amplifier. The DC it converts is at around 70V for use by the amplifier but the mains is never really 'regenerated' but actually passed through and corrected to be near-perfect. If you owned one, you would know as the P10 can be switched on or off on the fly, with no relays switching over from corrected to uncorrected. As for it being susceptible to DC, well, let's see now. It's an amplifier and uses a precision digital reference waveform. Yup, confirms my findings that it can be affected by DC. |
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Post by pinkie on Feb 5, 2018 17:00:56 GMT
Martin
My point was the manufacturer was making a claim for their product. I cut and pasted that claim from their web site. It may be they don't know what they are doing and need to consult you for advice, but they are making that claim. They claim that their product means "any problems on your power line ... are eliminated"
Now I appreciate your view is that the reason that PS audio are making false claims for their product is that they don't understand how it works, but I didn't presume to tell them that, so in quoting their performance claims, quoted the entire section verbatim.
Clearly PS audio need to be made aware that their product which is designed to eliminate any problems on your power lines, is only capable of doing so if DC is present on the power line, by itself being protected from that DC using a DC blocker
1) That is very much NOT the impression PS audio give in their marketing claims - they strongly imply it is a "one-shot" solution for any and all power woes
2) It should be a pretty easy fix for them. With their skills they can knock up a DC blocker on the front end of the PS10 for pennies in parts cost
I think they should be made aware of this issue.
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