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Post by tarkers on Nov 17, 2017 23:31:21 GMT
For those interested in trying out some NVA products on a no fee loan basis, there's a loan scheme up and running over on the hifi subjectivist forum. Details are in this post: hifisubjectivist.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=48763I must add that I have no connection with NVA other than being a forum member. Neither do I have any NVA equipment of any sort. However, the loan scheme does seem an ideal way to find out if there might be something in it for you. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2017 23:41:47 GMT
Well do it then  |
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Post by ChrisB on Nov 18, 2017 0:30:19 GMT
I am going to let your post stand Simon, and it's great if people can take advantage of it to find a better way for them to enjoy music.
But...
A manufacturer specifically requests people to go to a particular forum in order to draw the attention of the members there to a promotional initiative of his own products.
Gosh. How times change.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 7:34:57 GMT
A total contribution of two posts: One extolling the virtues of impartiality and the second directly promoting a manufacturer at his behest. Well done and thank you for the transparency!
Personally I don't think times have changed, RD has created controversy in order to plug his product for years. He has also regularly egged people on to post for him on forums from which he has only himself to blame for being banned.
No need for it as his products are good and available at EBay or his own NVA forum. I'm glad you let the post stand, Chris, as I'm sure RD would have made huge publicity from you taking it down.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 8:20:04 GMT
"Huge publicity" is laughable. I am sure a point would have been made about it.
I may post HFS and ask for a loan of a phono stage as I have read reviews on how good they are. Oh wait, I am banned for correcting some misinformation, so I won't be able to. He probably would not sell me one anyway (like a few others here on TAS), so I see very little value from this thread.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 8:25:47 GMT
Yes, perhaps I should have said "a huge amount of noise". It's hard to generate "huge publicity" when you're banned from so many outlets,
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Post by MartinT on Nov 18, 2017 8:26:05 GMT
I think it's called shilling.
I am someone who uses an NVA TIS interconnect and reviewed it very well. Yet I am now banned from buying any more.
Anyone see the hypocrisy here?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 8:31:08 GMT
Refusing to sell to those who challenge him is just another element of the marketing strategy if you ask me: it's a bit similar to that used by Donald Trump:
Be as disagreeable as possible, argue every point and inflate it into something bigger, create enemies where they don't really exist and the weak ones will latch onto you as some sort of leader/guru.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 11:06:40 GMT
I think the ban on Martin buying is retaliation for Richard being banned here and the ending of the loan scheme due to apparent competitors not wanting to participate. While I praise this forum for not banning mention of NVA like the psychotic dictators elsewhere, and allowing this thread, I do not think mention of NVA should be allowed to develop into a Dunn bashing fest. Of course the loan scheme can be seen as marketing, but it is a fairly open activity and in no way the same as some of the covert advertising that goes on at other forums. Nice way to try for yourself and see if SQ lives up to the claims. This frankly appears to have been posted in good faith and for information purposes. I only refrained from mentioning it myself as I predicted the comments posted above.
Most of this conflict could be resolved if bans were lifted all round and a gag put on RD's stalkers who set out to provoke him. I think Nick handled this admirably well on Audio Talk forum. I don't see NVA as a threat to dealers as I believe some of them still do. Both hi-fi shops and on-line sales can still prosper side by side if the former don't price themselves out of the mainstream market. It's no doubt NVA provide unrivalled value for money if you are prepared to embrace the design philosophy in pursuit of maximising SQ. Of course the fact that the cheapest entry level components have been reported to outperform some rather expensive kit may worry some people.
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Post by pinkie on Nov 18, 2017 11:12:58 GMT
I think it's called shilling. I am someone who uses an NVA TIS interconnect and reviewed it very well. Yet I am now banned from buying any more. Anyone see the hypocrisy here? Martin You know very well you are dealing with a petulant child and his coterie. Move on. If you really want NVA gear get a friend to buy it. But don't flatter his vanity engaging in debate. As Andrew has pointed out, he delights in controversy, and deliberately provokes bans by breaking others rules (and spoiling their environment) only to play the injured innocent. I am reminded of that fine advice I had long ago. "Sometimes things are as they seem". There are better things to do in life than worry about Mr Dunn and his tantrums. |
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Post by ChrisB on Nov 18, 2017 11:29:31 GMT
He was banned from here for consistently breaking our rules.
Since he was banned, he has attempted to rejoin at least three times.
He continues to insult us personally with childish name-calling, while demanding that we welcome him here with open arms?
The ban will not be lifted.
My point, which some fail to see, is not that a loan scheme exists - that's great. Or even that there is a post about it here. I have no argument with Simon personally for posting it.
But if it were any other manufacturer who sent people to promote their own goods on a self avowed non-commercial hifi forum, who would be the loudest in crying out the words "shill" and "corruption" or worse?
But the call is: "Go and promote my products and brand at The Audio Standard".
You couldn't make it up!
Despite all of the above, we remain impartial to all products from all manufacturers.
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Post by julesd68 on Nov 18, 2017 12:04:31 GMT
I think the ban on Martin buying is retaliation for Richard being banned here and the ending of the loan scheme due to apparent competitors not wanting to participate. While I praise this forum for not banning mention of NVA like the psychotic dictators elsewhere, and allowing this thread, I do not think mention of NVA should be allowed to develop into a Dunn bashing fest. Of course the loan scheme can be seen as marketing, but it is a fairly open activity and in no way the same as some of the covert advertising that goes on at other forums. Nice way to try for yourself and see if SQ lives up to the claims. This frankly appears to have been posted in good faith and for information purposes. I only refrained from mentioning it myself as I predicted the comments posted above. I really don't think anyone would have batted an eyelid Paul if you had mentioned the loan scheme. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 12:34:43 GMT
I see this as a massive example of shilling on behalf of NVA. I would say the same if someone popped on here on behalf of Exposure, Focal or any other brand for that matter.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 13:25:47 GMT
Apologies for my post but the opening post was very iffy if you ask me.
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Post by Stratmangler on Nov 18, 2017 13:35:09 GMT
I see this as a massive example of shilling on behalf of NVA. I would say the same if someone popped on here on behalf of Exposure, Focal or any other brand for that matter. Massive? Nah, it's very small potatoes. The Princess is obviously looking to generate sales, but it's such a small marketplace nowadays that I'm surprised there's anyone left that's going to be sucked in by such a sales strategy. It's a shame that the OP has shown himself/herself to have little interest in actually participating more in this forum. |
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Post by Slinger on Nov 18, 2017 14:43:23 GMT
Do you know what accusing someone of being a "shill" and of "shilling" means? Do you actually understand the meaning of the word? Here's what you get if you Google it, top of the page...
or the top definition from the Urban Dictionary...
or from Dictionary dot com
I suggest that before insulting Simon (and NVA come to that) it might be an idea to look up the meanings of the words you're using instead of just parroting what you've seen and heard elsewhere...or in a lot of cases what you've been spouting for years. Simon can be accused of ADVERTISING, but not shilling, and he's hardly alone in advertising things on this forum and most others.
He is not an owner of NVA gear, he is receiving no remuneration for his post, financial or otherwise, and there is certainly nothing covert about the information he is disseminating. I don't think NVA can be accused of being owned a confidence trickster either, because that's what you've implied by branding Simon a shill?
I do understand that nobody will apologise, people on forums rarely do, but at least consider this as a bit of free education and perhaps something that might give pause for thought before you do it next time. Naaah! Not on a forum.
That's my two-pennyworth. I shall now stand on top of the parapet and attempt to catch as many of the thrown rocks as I can. I will not, however, comment further - so basically, you'll be talking to yourselves.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 15:14:21 GMT
Interestingly, a search on HFs brings up 55 pages of posts with the word "shilling". Most of them are from RD and the majority of accusations appear to have been aimed at DSJR (prior to his NVA association) and RD's new-found friend MCRU. Oddly enough I didn't see any posts from you complaining......
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Post by ChrisB on Nov 18, 2017 15:20:29 GMT
One of those definitions describes precisely what has happened here:
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 15:24:30 GMT
Apologies for my post but the opening post was very iffy if you ask me. Only if you jump to conclusions based on your imagination. |
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Post by ChrisB on Nov 18, 2017 15:27:17 GMT
I think this discussion probably ought to conclude now, before it takes a turn for the worse.
The thread will stand as I said before and I don't want to lock it, but I will if I have to.
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