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Post by jandl100 on Nov 18, 2014 16:43:42 GMT
Going back to the magnetic support thing ...
You may recall me using them under my NAD S300 ss amp.
Well, that amp is now my amp of choice, the other contenders now being with happy new owners.
But I was noticing a left leaning imbalance in my system. .... which wasn't there with other amps.  After much fruitless twiddling I ended up pushing the left speaker back a way to even things up a bit - not ideal. Then one of those seemingly daft ideas came along --- 2 of the magnet supports (strong enough for 3 to support 27Kg of amp) were directly under the twin toroid transformers strapped to the amp's faceplate. I moved them to the sides, under the heatsink fins, and hey presto, a central mono image is back again.
--- all this verified with the L/R/centre test tracks on the Stereophile test CD. It's very very obvious!
Does that make any kind of sense, technically?  |
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Post by ChrisB on Nov 18, 2014 17:40:54 GMT
That is really interesting Jerry. I have a feeling that if someone were to explain to me exactly why it happened, I still wouldn't understand!
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Post by MartinT on Nov 18, 2014 18:04:19 GMT
The magnets must have been disturbing the fields of the two toroids possibly powering L/R power supplies. If so, the behaviour of each PSU may have been disrupted, causing the L/R imbalance you heard. Fascinating, and another indication that I had best keep magnets away from my system.
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Post by MikeMusic on Nov 18, 2014 18:16:34 GMT
I love what magnets do, but not near my kit or PC, or tapes !
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Post by jandl100 on Nov 19, 2014 7:27:01 GMT
The magnets must have been disturbing the fields of the two toroids possibly powering L/R power supplies. If so, the behaviour of each PSU may have been disrupted, causing the L/R imbalance you heard. Fascinating, and another indication that I had best keep magnets away from my system. Yes, it is a bit thought provoking.
But it's a trade-off for me ... I can only assume that despite the increased separation of magnet supports from toroids I am still getting some deleterious interaction (even though the symptom of L/R imbalance is now gone) ... but the magnet supports literally transform the sound quality from the amp in a quite uncanny way making it more open and spaciously real. ... but perhaps that is direct evidence of a more subtle form of distortion! If so, then I like it! 
I've tried the other support doodads that I have lying around - RDC cones, sorbothane squidgy things, ART Q damper blocks, titanium cones .... etc! - and none of them come even close to the sq improvement that the magnetic supports deliver. Which may be evidence that the magnets are still effecting the amp in a technically deleterious way - but I just happen to like the effect/affect! --- I had an hifi friend come visit the other day, very familiar with the sound-history of my system, and he was quite blown away by the sq improvement that the magnetically supported NAD delivered. Experienced though he is with multi-£k systems, he said that it was the best system he had ever heard. So it's not just me, the dang magneto-things really do seem to be doing something seriously good!
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Post by MartinT on Nov 19, 2014 10:44:31 GMT
Which magnetic supports are they, Jerry, or are they ones you've made?
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Post by jandl100 on Nov 19, 2014 11:16:28 GMT
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Post by MikeMusic on Nov 19, 2014 12:58:16 GMT
Wot no black ones ?!  |
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Post by MartinT on Nov 19, 2014 13:08:15 GMT
Thanks, Jerry. Looks like they've disappeared from the market.
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Post by MartinT on Nov 19, 2014 15:05:09 GMT
I've done some more homework on my turntable solution and my conclusion is that the solution is nearly, but not quite, right.
The deck coupled to the granite block is working well, but the granite on sorbothane is slightly killing the sound, as seems apparent whenever I try to use sorbothane anywhere in my system. Repelling magnets are too wayward, the Chinese maglevs proved not to be magnetic at all and RDCs don't provide sufficient decoupling in this application. I need a good level of isolation in order to prevent bass feedback into my system. Springs may work but they can resonate a lot. I have decided to try four Something Solid Little Link Feet as they have been well reviewed and look to provide what I need: good isolation without killing the sound. They work on the tensioned cord principle, and have a maximum loading way in excess of the 30-40kg in total that I need.
More details once I have received them. |
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Post by speedysteve on Nov 20, 2014 15:38:57 GMT
Interesting.
I had sorbothane under the SP-10 way back as a test. I had used them on other TT's and it was ok'ish.
I'm just on three StillPoints as that works best of the things I've tried and they came with the plinth;)
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Post by MartinT on Nov 26, 2014 19:25:53 GMT
The Little Link feet arrived today and I wasted no time in heaving the deck off the granite and the granite off the sorbothane feet. The Little Links come as a two-piece set with the centre hub sitting on crossed cables and offering a carbon/balsa interface with the component sitting on them. An intriguing idea, nicely executed, and I had high hopes for them. Unfortunately, those hopes were dashed when I lowered the stylus into the groove of my consistent test record, Ry Cooder's Bop Til You Drop. With the volume set to only 52dB the bass feedback started immediately. Damn and Blast!
My comments on all the 'failed' feet so far relate to their isolation properties, not to their sound quality. I have a few ideas for deploying the Little Links so more about them another time. I have now acquired quite a collection of footers and cones!
Having another think about what's going on, the inevitable conclusion is that the sorbothane pucks are extremely effective at isolating the granite slab from the outside world. However, I had one more card to play: eliminating the RDC Combi Bases which contain a sorbothane ring, thus eliminating sorbothane from the deck-granite interface. Bingo! This improved clarity and detail by a small amount and had a more noticeable effect in dropping the noise floor. I can't explain it, but records played at up to 60dB setting (seriously loud with most pressings) are remarkably quiet and unintrusive. Clearly, the deck wants to be coupled with the heavy granite slab, but needs it to be completely isolated from everything else.
So there it is. The current (and quite possibly final) solution is as follows:
Turntable > RDC 1 Cones > RDC Cone Cups > heavy granite slab > sorbothane pucks > system rack |
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Post by MikeMusic on Nov 26, 2014 19:43:18 GMT
An alternative I still have to test properly
RDC 4s
The RDCs in 2 parts, one with Sorbothane !
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Post by MartinT on Dec 9, 2014 20:25:56 GMT
I've had the day off today which enabled me to play lots of music while trying out a prototype support shelf from Electric Beach under the turntable. The latter is rather special but more about it later when I have some details from Steve. Suffice to say, it's been a vinyl day Meanwhile, I redeployed the four Something Solid Little Link feet, two at the rear of each of my computer speakers, with an RDC1 Cone at the front. This tips them up slightly and sounds rather good. I try not to waste good accessories! |
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Post by John on Dec 9, 2014 20:36:42 GMT
Yes I plan to get a shelf from Steve too
I know he did a bit of research to come up with the design and heard it in action last time I visited him
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Post by Sovereign on Dec 9, 2014 22:55:59 GMT
Yes tell us what you think...
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Post by MartinT on Dec 10, 2014 6:58:45 GMT
I can now reveal that the Electric Beach S1NX isolation support shelf is a really excellent piece of kit at a very reasonable price. Here's a photo of it in action under my Technics turntable...
I will write a full review when I have a moment, but for now suffice to say that it's the most effective support I've ever used under the deck and brings me closer to the music, cutting out the small things that obscure clarity. It gives me the isolation I need but messes with the integrity of the music quite a lot less than the granite shelf. As I wrote to Steve "I hate to use the word but there’s more 'snap' to the sound and I can hear tiny details in, say, cymbal work that I hadn’t noticed before. It’s all in the micro-transients". I have it resting on the same sorbothane pucks that I used with the granite. Construction is complex and, dare I say, time consuming, and I consider the price of £120 to be very fair for the improvement rendered in sound quality. I'll be sending payment in Steve's direction as this one is mine! I may try another one under the Ayre SACD player at some point.
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Post by MikeMusic on Dec 10, 2014 8:23:17 GMT
Very interesting
Supports are such a huge field
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Post by ChrisB on Dec 10, 2014 8:28:54 GMT
Construction is complex and, dare I say, time consuming....
So presumably, there's something else going on under the skin there? Do you know what the construction is, or does Steve prefer it to be shrouded in mystery? |
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Post by MikeMusic on Dec 10, 2014 9:31:26 GMT
Your field I imagine Chris
Some sort of engineered wood .....?
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