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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2017 15:22:16 GMT
(RMS of UK mains is 668Vac) and around 35 amps. Sorry - I'm confused. Could you explain what you meant please? RMS nominal Vac for the mains is surely 240. Peak voltage is about 325. Maximum current on a conventional socket circuit on a consumer unit will be 15 amps. Now Richard I'm confused that you are confused  I have a confession to make first, the true peak to peak rms voltage is 679 Vac my maths are bad today apologies for that chaps. Mind you I am surprised that your oracle who usually provides you with your forum information didn't spot that, or is he having an off day today possibly?  679Vac is the peak to peak figure top to bottom of a complete waveform. With regards to current draw form standard UK mains ring a decent amplifier when you first switch on will draw far more than the 13 amps to energize the its transformer field coil possibly into the 100's amps though only for a very small time quicker than the a 36ma circuit breaker can react. Besides do you not feel that components with much stronger dielectrics actually produce better results? besides it always makes the professionals at the CE testing facilities look more approvingly on your designs when you have shown due diligence and beyond  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2017 15:52:29 GMT
The formula you require for working out the root mean square (RMS) of any voltage is Vrms = Vmax / √2)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2017 15:57:10 GMT
Mike
A good place to start is a separate 4 way CU (consumer unit) new 100 amp tail form the meter, dedicated 32amp breakers for each line you put in I would recommend 6mm T & E (Most sparkies will moan but its worth it) 10mm we found bloated the bass.
Switch less sockets and only one double socket per RCB.
This will give you a nice improvement to your systems and surprisingly will not cost as much as you think, also use a professional electrician as he will be require to sign off on any electrical work completed with a certificate of installation competence and safety.
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Post by pinkie on Apr 26, 2017 16:02:39 GMT
Sorry - I'm confused. Could you explain what you meant please? RMS nominal Vac for the mains is surely 240. Peak voltage is about 325. Maximum current on a conventional socket circuit on a consumer unit will be 15 amps. Now Richard I'm confused that you are confused I have a confession to make first, the true peak to peak rms voltage is 679 Vac my maths are bad today apologies for that chaps. Mind you I am surprised that your oracle who usually provides you with your forum information didn't spot that, or is he having an off day today possibly? 679Vac is the peak to peak figure top to bottom of a complete waveform. With regards to current draw form standard UK mains ring a decent amplifier when you first switch on will draw far more than the 13 amps to energize the its transformer field coil possibly into the 100's amps though only for a very small time quicker than the a 36ma circuit breaker can react. Besides do you not feel that components with much stronger dielectrics actually produce better results? besides it always makes the professionals at the CE testing facilities look more approvingly on your designs when you have shown due diligence and beyond The thing about squaring a number is that minus turns into plus, and you are measuring average over time RMS explainedOr if you prefer RMS explained againCan you find me a link that doesn't describe the UK mains as 240v RMS? I don't know what you think your peak to peak value tells you, but how much power does 1 amp current produce for you? Mine produces 240W. Do you get 680W Patent it! |
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Post by MikeMusic on Apr 26, 2017 16:07:53 GMT
Tony
Thanks
I know a good sparky I have used for years so this could be a goer.
Our set up may need looking at though.
Overhead line coming in for electric. No choice there.
Comes into the kitchen for the big switch and breaker.
That feeds the board in the hall which distributes around the house.
Dedicated ring for the system room
Where would he feed from ? (and I wonder how he could route the cable so no showing a great chunky bit of T& E )
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2017 16:39:56 GMT
Richard
I like to design equipment that works, sounds good and will easily pass CE certification and is built correctly and not fall apart on a regular basis or have to be put right by the dealer on delivery!
Know anyone like that at all?
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Post by pinkie on Apr 26, 2017 16:44:41 GMT
Tony Thanks I know a good sparky I have used for years so this could be a goer. Our set up may need looking at though. Overhead line coming in for electric. No choice there. Comes into the kitchen for the big switch and breaker. That feeds the board in the hall which distributes around the house. Dedicated ring for the system room Where would he feed from ? (and I wonder how he could route the cable so no showing a great chunky bit of T& E ) I'm not sure what you are hoping for, and I know nothing I say will change anything, but there was a thread on another forum (at least 2 of them actually) about installing new boards and the benefits of keeping one board clean. I noted that I have 3 separate boards at my house, each with its own RCD, and up to 20 radial circuits on each, and my homeplugs happily send noise from one circuit on one board to another circuit on another board - demonstrating that the separate boards create no isolation. Indeed, as this whole DC business demonstrates. The DC doesn't come from the power company - they have a local transformer which blocks any DC that might be on their high power network (which itself gets upset by too much DC). I presume it doesn't come from you, unless you have a lot of old kit with half-wave rectifiers or variacs. If your better half is running a cheap hairdryer at half power all day, then that would produce some. Otherwise it comes from your neighbours spending all day drying their hair at half power with cheap hairdryers. But if it can come from your neighbours, it isn't going to be fazed by crossing a board |
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Post by pinkie on Apr 26, 2017 16:48:10 GMT
Richard I like to design equipment that works, sounds good and will easily pass CE certification and is built correctly and not fall apart on a regular basis or have to be put right by the dealer on delivery! Know anyone like that at all? Tony That's admirable and I have no issue with what you like. It doesn't make UK mains voltage 680vac RMS. It remains nominally 240v RMS. If you ever have to do a power calculation, it helps to have the correct voltage value. (Yes - know good engineers. One of them designs products of such quality for THX and Benchmark. And they get their sums right) |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2017 17:23:34 GMT
I have to side with Richard on this. A 3 phase supply is only around 415V rms, so I don't know where a figure of over 600V comes from.
I am putting it down to a bad maths day.....
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2017 17:33:34 GMT
Richard
I am more than happy with my calculations especially when it comes certain aspects of CE testing are concerned make no mistake.
Not so long in place not too far away, I had the misfortune to own a outlet selling a brand of turntable that was quite frankly a fornicating joke when it came to build quality and customer non satisfaction it's world class, not to mention the waiting time to rectify faults that in all honesty, a chimp would have spotted and rectified before sending to any retailer. Now that's magic and no calculus involved! Only in the UK would anyone put up with such abysmal products and service
I'm overwhelming pleased you have no issue with what I like, that's seriously good of you to be so accommodating with such a lowly person like myself, I doff my hat in admiration to your significantly superior IQ, your rapacious ability to respond with such profound wisdom and self assuredness is almost God-like it defies description.
Surely you are now editing the Guardian currently Richard under a pseudonym? I mean a being of your omnipotence is capable of so much more, why lower your divine presence to injecting written words on internet fora, what for you must be tedium incarnate for a being who processes an IQ exceeding 200.
I strongly suspect the UN secretly take your advisement on matters of the utmost global importance, for example which particular delicacy does Kim Jong-un partake in before bloating himself up for another round of USA rhetoric?, Will Russia decide to leave the Ukraine or what shade of pink does one have for one's dog's push chair?
Yes indeed Richard, my life's poor worth is nothing without your rapier intellect and posts of sheer reverence and wisdom, indeed while many people follow a religious or spiritual path, I bow to the one true master of Corbyn, the Calief of the metaphysical, the true Emperor of electron manipulation, the Marchioness of particle physics. I humbly ask your forgiveness for my most inaccurate words. For I would most graciously suggest that Richard King of the all that is not explainable for your role has become clear, you sir are required to look to guide us poor mortals in this time of need and gloom in the world.
Please accept the mantle and deliver us from mediocrity, all hail Richard master of those in need of divine guidance
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2017 17:37:36 GMT
A bit of an extreme reaction after you got a few sums wrong....
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2017 17:41:15 GMT
Hi Wonky
I know it looks wrong however some rational for you.
This figure is arrived at by taking a pure sinusoidal waveform. The UK mains voltage that is generally discussed is the RMS voltage because this is generally taken as equivalent to the DC voltage that produces the same heating effect for a given current.
So 240V RMS is equivalent to 339 V peak voltage, or 679 V peak to peak voltage (A complete sinusoidal waveform) and can be written as 240 Vrms. (the formula is Vrms = Vmax / √2).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2017 17:43:58 GMT
A bit of an extreme reaction after you got a few sums wrong.... Hi Wonky, No really, just over time Richard has the ability to make 40 grit reduction paper feel like a baby's bottom, possible the threshold was breached nothing more. |
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Post by pinkie on Apr 26, 2017 17:50:18 GMT
But Tony.
In your post which I originally politely questioned, you referred to the peak to peak voltage of 670+ as RMS. Now you say, correctly, that the RMS voltage is 240v.
It was just a polite question about a confusing term (which I think we now agree was an incorrect term)
No need for all this hostility
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Post by orbscure on Apr 26, 2017 18:04:47 GMT
A bit of an extreme reaction after you got a few sums wrong.... For those of us who know Richard from his previous behaviour here (and elsewhere) Kevin, it was a reply that was very much borne out of the clear fact that Pinkie comes across as wanting to make points simply because he can, rather than having a wholly genuine reason to contribute. What makes this even more amazing is that he still needs to run much of his electrical knowledge past a friend first before posting. At a guess, if he were in a room on his own with only a mirror to keep him company, I have no doubt that he'd end up arguing with his reflection As for me and my apparent DC issues, I'm still looking for a solution and I welcome the positive input from those offering their expertise or experiences, rather than simply arguing the toss  |
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Post by pinkie on Apr 26, 2017 18:41:23 GMT
A bit of an extreme reaction after you got a few sums wrong.... For those of us who know Richard from his previous behaviour here (and elsewhere) Kevin, it was a reply that was very much borne out of the clear fact that Pinkie comes across as wanting to make points simply because he can, rather than having a wholly genuine reason to contribute. What makes this even more amazing is that he still needs to run much of his electrical knowledge past a friend first before posting. At a guess, if he were in a room on his own with only a mirror to keep him company, I have no doubt that he'd end up arguing with his reflection As for me and my apparent DC issues, I'm still looking for a solution and I welcome the positive input from those offering their expertise or experiences, rather than simply arguing the toss Since your amp has an IE rather than toroidal DC is unlikely to be the problem. The fact that a DC blocker didn't fix it tends to confirm that. Accordingly trying to measure DC or block it with a regenerator or transformer is unlikely to help. Measuring DC on ac properly is not easy. You need something like a fluke 289 or an oscilloscope. But it's probably not that. I doubt it has anything to do with your mains. Have you checked the voltage on your supply? Can you be more specific about what your problem is? |
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Post by Rexton on Apr 26, 2017 20:22:47 GMT
My P10 emits a very level hum. I have 9 components attached to the P10. The components range from power amps, tuners, valve amps, active speakers, phonostages, PSU's. None hum or buzz. I've tried DC blockers with little effect. I do have pretty good ears and can easily detect small changes to the soundstage. I wonder if this particular DC blocker could reduce the very small amount hum from the P10. I would suspect that removing of the hum which in my own personal setup results in a lowered noise background. I sometimes wonder if the hum in the background affects my perception of the soundstage's construction. So, remove the hum, and better soundstage? Who knows? Just some thoughts.
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Post by The Brookmeister on Apr 26, 2017 20:33:42 GMT
Richard I am more than happy with my calculations especially when it comes certain aspects of CE testing are concerned make no mistake. Not so long in place not too far away, I had the misfortune to own a outlet selling a brand of turntable that was quite frankly a fornicating joke when it came to build quality and customer non satisfaction it's world class, not to mention the waiting time to rectify faults that in all honesty, a chimp would have spotted and rectified before sending to any retailer. Now that's magic and no calculus involved! Only in the UK would anyone put up with such abysmal products and service I'm overwhelming pleased you have no issue with what I like, that's seriously good of you to be so accommodating with such a lowly person like myself, I doff my hat in admiration to your significantly superior IQ, your rapacious ability to respond with such profound wisdom and self assuredness is almost God-like it defies description. Surely you are now editing the Guardian currently Richard under a pseudonym? I mean a being of your omnipotence is capable of so much more, why lower your divine presence to injecting written words on internet fora, what for you must be tedium incarnate for a being who processes an IQ exceeding 200. I strongly suspect the UN secretly take your advisement on matters of the utmost global importance, for example which particular delicacy does Kim Jong-un partake in before bloating himself up for another round of USA rhetoric?, Will Russia decide to leave the Ukraine or what shade of pink does one have for one's dog's push chair? Yes indeed Richard, my life's poor worth is nothing without your rapier intellect and posts of sheer reverence and wisdom, indeed while many people follow a religious or spiritual path, I bow to the one true master of Corbyn, the Calief of the metaphysical, the true Emperor of electron manipulation, the Marchioness of particle physics. I humbly ask your forgiveness for my most inaccurate words. For I would most graciously suggest that Richard King of the all that is not explainable for your role has become clear, you sir are required to look to guide us poor mortals in this time of need and gloom in the world. Please accept the mantle and deliver us from mediocrity, all hail Richard master of those in need of divine guidance LOL I feel another of your famous poems coming soon eh Tony? |
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Post by MartinT on Apr 26, 2017 21:25:22 GMT
My mains voltage has varied wildly between a high of 252V and a low of 235V. The noise varies between not much at all (PS Audio Harvester not blinking) and pretty high (Harvester blinking about twice a second). I think there is some big farm machinery nearby injecting this crap back into the mains, it seems to happen between about 17:30 and 20:00 in the evening. I got home late so have still to measure the superimposed DC. Will try to do so tomorrow.
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Post by Greg on Apr 26, 2017 23:09:34 GMT
Remember, regardless of how many items you have in your system, you never need all of them on at the same time. MCRU doma sale and return policy which actually is law now anyway. You can have it for a fortnight and return for full refund just because you've changed your mind and nothing more.
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