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Post by danielquinn on Jul 31, 2014 8:18:38 GMT
8 billion years and ET still hasn't found us ET can't find us, any more than we can find them. We are too isolated by Einstein's equations. Nah , it just there anit anything to find .
And if isolated by equations is not a best epigraph to establish what all load of theoretical nonsense this is , I will eat my PT at scaffold .
It is mind games for those with nothing better to do .
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 8:25:39 GMT
See here for an explanation of what Hawking et al have been working on for years, the Theory of Everything, an attempt to unify Quantum Mechanics (the theory of small particles) with General Relativity (the theory of large masses). Thanks Martin, I'm aware of attempts to come up with a grand unified theory and a Theory of Everything. The Wiki article that you linked to says this: "Through years of research, physicists have experimentally confirmed with tremendous accuracy virtually every prediction made by these two theories when in their appropriate domains of applicability." So I'm struggling to understand why I am wrong to take the view that a ToE or a GUT will somehow "prove Einstein wrong". Maybe I'm missing something? Can anyone point to some sources that show that Einstein was fundamentally wrong with general relativity or Newton was fundamentally wrong in describing gravity? |
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Post by jandl100 on Jul 31, 2014 8:48:24 GMT
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Post by jandl100 on Jul 31, 2014 8:56:27 GMT
I think I understand where you are coming from, but a theory that goes askew at extremes can only be seen as an approximation valid to a particular range of circumstances. A superior theory will have wider applicability and will be nearer the truth and will explain and allow a wider range of phenomena. So maybe if you improve and push relativity beyond its current limits, new phenomena (like maybe wormholes or plain old super-luminary speeds) will become possible.
I think it is a fundamental error to believe that what we have now is basically correct. The Victorians believed that their Newtonian dynamics was the be all and end all, and all that was left was extending the number of decimal points in measuring things. How wrong they were!
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Post by MartinT on Jul 31, 2014 9:14:05 GMT
I agree with Jerry, both theories cease describing observed behaviour correctly when outside of their domain. Therefore it's reasonable to assume that each requires corrective action in order to be fully accurate. At that point, we will have achieved unification.
EDIT: I don't mean to suggest that it will be easy! |
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Post by jandl100 on Jul 31, 2014 9:14:48 GMT
Sorry, Lawrence, but you are incorrect.
I think that most physicists would agree that the biggest challenge for modern day science is the disconnect between relativity and quantum physics. They literally cannot both be right. That's just the way it is, I'm afraid. 
Can you point me in the direction of some material that supports this please? I look at it more in these terms, but happy to be shown to have misunderstood what it means to develop a superior theory: www.universetoday.com/108044/why-einstein-will-never-be-wrong/OK- I've read that article - all it seems to me to be saying is that all theories are approximations Newtonian mechanics is good up to a point. Einstein's theory of relativity extends the applicability. We now need, and are looking for, the next better theory for where Relativity is no longer applicable.
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Post by Dave on Jul 31, 2014 14:44:52 GMT
I believe I've mentioned this before but there's a group in the states that are researching warp technology and they are confident they can get the problem licked. I'll try to find the link... Is that the space-folding project? Make a small jump between two folded bits of space to cover vast distances.
The thing is.... If it were possible to not only achieve it in a lab but to actually use it for travel, we would not be the first (looking at the age of the universe). So how come we're not inundated with visitors?
Sheer speculation here, but perhaps they have rules and laws governing non-intervention in regards to developing civilisations. Perhaps they are just not interested because they've seen it all before and recognise that the vast majority of feudal societies disappear up their own bottoms. Maybe they have evolved way beyond our ken and can manipulate time and space using individual or combined consciousness.
As I say, sheer speculation but the three scenarios I describe are mostly plausible...
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 31, 2014 14:55:15 GMT
IMO, the fact you can legitimately have these absurd discussions about multiple universes , bending time , time travel is proof of one thing . The explanatory paucity of our current explanations and understanding .
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Post by MartinT on Jul 31, 2014 16:25:17 GMT
All the best scientists openly admit that there is much we don't know. It's only religious types who know everything.
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Post by pre65 on Jul 31, 2014 16:30:30 GMT
I thought religion was a non discussion topic ? I hope so.
Or, now you've raised it is that not so ?
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Post by yomanze on Jul 31, 2014 17:15:57 GMT
There's a saying: science has all the questions and no answers; religion has all the answers and no questions.  |
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Post by jandl100 on Jul 31, 2014 17:57:14 GMT
Maybe there's alien life closer than we'd thought .. www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/29/nasa_spots_101_chilly_geysers_on_surface_of_enceladus/___ Re: If life is abundant and interstellar travel is possible - then where is everybody? There's time to consider as well as space - our galaxy is well over 4 billion years old. Our recorded civilisation has been around a few thousand. And the historical record gets a bit patchy after just a few hundred. Interstellar civilisations in our galaxy could have come, lasted millennia, and gone thousands of times over and we would be none the wiser about it if they didn't happen to coincide with our few thousand years of recorded history. The universe is huge in time as well as space. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 18:21:47 GMT
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Post by MartinT on Jul 31, 2014 18:29:33 GMT
I thought religion was a non discussion topic ? I hope so.
You're right, although it was in the context of certainty! Apologies. |
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Post by yomanze on Jul 31, 2014 18:30:39 GMT
Damn does that mean that sex and politics are out too? |
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Post by MartinT on Jul 31, 2014 18:33:58 GMT
There's no restriction on sex (but keep it clean)!
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Post by Chris on Jul 31, 2014 19:08:36 GMT
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Post by Dave on Jul 31, 2014 19:12:56 GMT
...however discussing it with knowledgeable people can broaden the mind and besides, it beats arguing about cables...  |
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Post by jandl100 on Jul 31, 2014 21:31:25 GMT
Well, I've got a degree in astronomy and I did 3 years post grad research and published some research papers. Does that count?
But arguing about hifi cables can be fun, too. 
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Post by pre65 on Jul 31, 2014 21:34:06 GMT
Well, I've got a degree in astronomy and I did 3 years post grad research and published some research papers. Does that count?
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