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Post by badsoden on Jan 3, 2017 21:40:22 GMT
Wasn't sure of the title of this as I wanted to ask people their opinions of the Sonore microRendu and the SOtM sMS-200 but there are probably other options out there that I don't know about yet(apart from the RPI which I have 3 of). So does anyone have any thoughts on these two products or others? Also the all important PSU to power them? Also please change the subject if you think its a little too generic!
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Post by Greg on Jan 3, 2017 23:40:43 GMT
Chris, I'll come back to you on this tomorrow. Sorry, just too late and feel just to tired.
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Post by Stratmangler on Jan 4, 2017 1:56:07 GMT
Looking at both players I see that you won't get a peep out of them on their own, because there isn't an analogue output between 'em, so you're forced to use an external DAC. And that DAC has to have USB connectivity, because there isn't an SPDIF of any sort. This in turn is going to limit the number of DACs that will play nice with the renderer. The only reason why both players use USB is because there's no recognised standard for native DSD playback, and USB has proved flexible enough to permit this. It doesn't mean that USB is a great interface for passing DSD data, but it will support it in some sort of fashion. So considering all that, they're expensive, and they're both given a "close but no cigar" award from me.
Both players can be seen by a number of well established platforms, which is good.
It's a shame that Logitech left the building a while ago, because there's precious little that comes near to approaching what they managed to do with the Squeezebox Touch. You always have the option of building up a RasPi to your own preferred spec, but it's not something that works straight out of the box, which might well put some off.
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Post by John on Jan 4, 2017 4:59:20 GMT
Greg has the MicroRendu which he rates it a lot better than the Pi You will also need to think about good power supply reading abot the SOTM it seems to be key to getting the best out of it Lots of good USB based DACs I would suggest something like the Cunas or the DDAC You could also think about stuff like the jitterbug makes a nice difference to USB playback all the way up to the PS Audio LanRover reclocker which I not heard I just got a dedicated PC built fanless that even with Spotify is brillant
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Post by mikeyb on Jan 4, 2017 8:46:21 GMT
They also rely on you having Roon and Tidal for streaming neither of which are cheap. I'd buy the SoTM in a heartbeat to replace my Pi if it did any of the other streaming services and didn't rely on Roon, but as is it's far too expensive and prohibitive to be of any use to me
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Post by badsoden on Jan 4, 2017 8:53:08 GMT
I already use a few PI's with picoreplayer but have heard that these are a step up in sound quality and yes PSU is an important part of it. Greg uses a Longdog Audio one. They both have far more options than just roon and tidal, check the links above, otherwise I wouldn't even consider them. For instance they both have squeezelite as an option which suits my needs. I already have a USB DAC as well.
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Post by Stratmangler on Jan 4, 2017 9:09:44 GMT
I have a couple of Nick's (LDA) PSUs too, and they're excellent.
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seanm
Rank: Trio
Posts: 162
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Post by seanm on Jan 4, 2017 12:57:54 GMT
In terms of finding out a little more about the microRendu and sMS-200 products, there are reviews by a Dutch chap here:
IMHO, his channel is worth watching and he has 2 videos for power supplies as well
He takes a non-partisan approach and to summarise he basically sees Pi based solutions as excellent value for money*. However, he also sees both of these players as being in another league altogether.
* When care is taken in the choice of DAC daughterboard and power supplies huge improvements can be made for little money.
I am enjoying RaspPi's at the moment, to be honest, the quality of the output from them is probably sufficient for the rest of the components currently in my systems. They are fun to tinker with, a revamped go-faster Pi or yet another DAC daughterboard can be experimented with for £10's which is fun.
Cheers
Sean
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Post by pre65 on Jan 4, 2017 13:05:04 GMT
It's a shame that Logitech left the building a while ago, because there's precious little that comes near to approaching what they managed to do with the Squeezebox Touch. I'd second that Chris.
Also power supplies from LDA (Long Dog Audio). Although I know Nick (Gorham) I try to be objective, but I like everything he produces, if only it were all within my budget. But then quality is never cheap.
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Post by badsoden on Jan 4, 2017 14:54:03 GMT
In terms of finding out a little more about the microRendu and sMS-200 products, there are reviews by a Dutch chap here: I've watched a few of his videos and like his approach. I've seen the reviews he has done for both of these units. He has the microRendu in his own setup but preferred the sMS-200. He seemed to imply that Sonore are developing a new version of the microRendu to compete with the sMS-200 and is waiting to see what they come up with.
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Post by John on Jan 4, 2017 18:01:23 GMT
I was really interested in buying the MicroRendu and contacted the distributor he responded to my first email but afterwards no response to arranging a trail so I decided to go on a different route
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Post by Clive on Jan 4, 2017 19:56:12 GMT
My RPi setup with Digi+ and iFi SPDIF reclocker with the RPi running from battery is a really good player (using Volumio2). It gets to 80% of more "serious" piece of hardware. Bughead on Windows is still top of the tree as far as I'm concerned but WTFplay - which is a linux minimal player - running on my Skylake i5 with SSD, this sounds great; it's way better than the RPi (also running linux) and close to Bughead but not quite up with it. There are so many ways to skin this cat!
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Post by Greg on Jan 5, 2017 3:47:26 GMT
I started streaming shortly after my last CDP failed just a month after I had spent £400 on a repair. I started with an RPi, Digi + into a Beresford Caiman II. I initialy used Squeezepad and sampled Qobuz and Tidal because I wanted a streaming service that offered lossless files. My friend was using Roon and I could see the benefit of it but had to wait for the Digi + to be supported before moving across. I also attended a couple of open days at a high end dealership and listened to a few of their five figure priced streaming devises. I concluded that these high end components offered very little over what my RPi could do. As soon as the Digi + Pro board came out, I upgraded to that and notice delicate improvement in terms of the fine detail and nuances of sound on instruments and voices. My friend then brought his microRendu around and I could immediately tell another measure of sound improvement, once again the noticeable areas being the fine detail sound, a greater sense of reality and naturalness. I bought one that evening. Since then I have bought my Devialet Expert Pro. This combination is just fantastic especially with the Devialet's built in dac.
The microRendu might be the size of a pack of cards and cost £642 (has reduced in price by £50) but considering the sound quality I think it to be excellent value for money. Consider how much you might pay for a quality CD player. It is essential that a very good quality linear PSU is used with it.
I often read negative comments about the cost of Tidal and Roon. I don't understand this. As I have no personal desire to own a physical object such as a CD that then needs storing, I love the instant access to a massive music library and it is so convenient. When one of you guys mentions some music I don't know, I can be listening to it in moments. Since I started streaming, I have not purchased any CD's or vinyl whatsoever. I recon I spend less on my music now but listen a lot more and in a much more diverse way. Every day can bring a new discovery. I managed to get my first years membership of Roon at half price. I have another three months free to add from a code that came with the mRendu. After that I will buy lifetime membership, a price equating to four years of annual membership. So, I spend less on my music, have nothing that needs storing yet listen more with greater variety. What's not to like?
I am so impressed with my system now, I am even considering putting my record deck and vinyl into storage. I can control both the amp and my music from my phone or iPad and when I get the amp hung out of view, the ugly rack will be gone and all to be seen of my system will be the speakers. In a shared living room, there are browny points to be earned there. Oh, and removing all my vinyl storage means my living room will be considerably larger.
If interested in the mRendu, there are loads of reviews and forum threads that discuss it. Many of these on computer audio forums and also on the Devialet forum. It's worth reading about the purist design principles that it embodies.
Finally I know a high end dealer who sells five figure streamers. He will not allow an mRendu to come into his shop and demonstration rooms. Now I wonder why that is?
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Post by Greg on Jan 5, 2017 7:58:19 GMT
I should have added that all my stored music files have been ripped to flac using dBpoweramp and are stored on my PC for back up, but are also stored on a Sonictransporter with 1TB SSD which is Roon ready and offers very fast functionality. I leave this on all the time as it only consumes 7W. Being fanless, it is also silent. I power the microRendu with a Longdog Audio linear PSU.
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Post by Stratmangler on Jan 5, 2017 9:21:31 GMT
What are you using for a DAC, Greg?
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Post by Greg on Jan 5, 2017 9:25:00 GMT
The built in DAC in the Devialet.
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Post by Stratmangler on Jan 5, 2017 9:57:55 GMT
Ah, I'd forgotten you'd gone over to the Dark Side (just kidding - I only have valves in guitar amps) Now I never, ever thought I'd see the day when you were considering putting your TT and records into storage, so the Microrendu must be doing something right.
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Post by Greg on Jan 5, 2017 10:30:48 GMT
Ah, I'd forgotten you'd gone over to the Dark Side (just kidding - I only have valves in guitar amps) Now I never, ever thought I'd see the day when you were considering putting your TT and records into storage, so the Microrendu must be doing something right.
I know. I come out in a sweat every time I think about it. I still like playing my records but the sound is different and appears coloured in a pleasant sort of way. Probably the Garrard. I never noticed it before. Of course I have a lot on vinyl that is not available to stream, so I'm wondering about doing a labourious digital conversion on some of my favourite albums. We shall see. Must admit, my whole HiFi experience has been turned on its head recently, but I'm very pleased with the outcome. Hopefully I'll be able to demo at ASBO.
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Post by Clive on Jan 5, 2017 11:26:37 GMT
Ah, I'd forgotten you'd gone over to the Dark Side (just kidding - I only have valves in guitar amps) Now I never, ever thought I'd see the day when you were considering putting your TT and records into storage, so the Microrendu must be doing something right.
I know. I come out in a sweat every time I think about it. I still like playing my records but the sound is different and appears coloured in a pleasant sort of way. Probably the Garrard. I never noticed it before. Of course I have a lot on vinyl that is not available to stream, so I'm wondering about doing a labourious digital conversion on some of my favourite albums. We shall see. Must admit, my whole HiFi experience has been turned on its head recently, but I'm very pleased with the outcome. Hopefully I'll be able to demo at ASBO. I believe that for many of us - though not so much the population in general - we have a hierarchy of needs (borrowing a little from Maslow). We want to listen to great renditions of music but the method we use needs to integrate within our lifestyles. Those fortunate enough to have a listening room have carte blanche to do pretty much what they like. When hifi is in a shared environment then if it detracts from the environment it will in the end become a source of displeasure. If domestic bliss can be achieved with a system which is convenient to use and produces acceptable results then in the overall scheme of things it's going to be a winner. My situation is that my wife is not at all driven music so we don't have hifi in our main living rooms. - I have my main listening room in the cellar, this is where my toys are, ie two record decks, computer and a room unfriendly system with lots of amps and cables. I enjoy the music and I enjoy playing with the toys. - I have a system in my study which is fairly simple, it's RPi based into an external DAC and integrated amp. - There's also a hifi system for our AV room for AV use only, this a 2.1 system using hifi components rather than AV gear but it's very simple to use (just one power switch, volume controlled from the TV). The 3 systems above are all very different in terms of their UI; records at one end of the spectrum to browser-based control at the other. I'm lucky in that I have the space for this, I don't know how I'd cope with a shared living room but I expect wifi / screen controlled streaming would be the compromise I'd go with.
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Post by badsoden on Jan 5, 2017 12:02:44 GMT
Shared room for me although my wife lets me get away with a lot!! To be honest though its me who likes the convenience of digital based music and the use of a UI to control everything. If I could afford a Devialet expert pro then it would probably be on my list of upgrade options. Greg, I have also been looking at the Sonic Transporter. Which model did you go for and how much import duty did you end up paying?
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