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Post by MikeMusic on Nov 28, 2016 16:40:09 GMT
To be honest, they are more awesome now than I ever realised in the old room. I think the extension and potency is actually better now than I used to have from the REL Studio II sub. Classical organ is quite stunning. This exercise really shows up the limitations and benefits of rooms for speakers. I know that the room I have is too small really for the Focal's I use... Shame really, because whilst I like the sound of them in here, I am sure they would be super impressive in a larger space. They may not be doing that badly Paul. I thought my Isobariks were too much for a previous room Turned out to be rubbish mains and earth. Went from rubbish to rather good. No kit changes just a bank of unswitched sockets and a decent earth
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Post by MikeMusic on Nov 28, 2016 16:44:49 GMT
Always good to hear prospective kit in *your* room
My Isobariks sounded good in my room.
The Aurum Montans a bit better but much better with Coherent speaker cable and Townshend wobbly stands.
TAD a big step up
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Post by steveeb on Nov 29, 2016 9:04:17 GMT
I could have a nice wide set up in the living room in the house, but to have a dedicated room spread eastward from the house is a rare pleasure. You find the geographical orientation of the room beneficial then James? Are you using Ley Lines to improve earthing efficiency?
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Post by steveeb on Nov 29, 2016 10:21:21 GMT
Speaker/room size interface is part of the reason I went for my Electric Beach FH3s. I would love a big pair of speakers like the Focal 1028Be, but I am unsure how they will work in my room. The FH3 design is a good example of using the room to intentionally extend the cabinet's action, the curved rear horn mouth controlling a reflected wave that grows to give effectively a much larger horn mouth. This lowers the impedance of the transition from speaker to free air, giving large scale and presence. Output at floor level extends low frequency performance and uses room loading much as a sub does. Restricting this part of the speaker's total output is pretty effective at tailoring this design to different room sizes and their character. I think more could be done with making speakers' adjustable. Of course there's room measurement and DSP to be had, but mechanically switched selection of driver output options for example, might not be too left field. The question of designing speakers for flat anechoic chamber response for a product that will never be used in those conditions is saying "our speaker is neutral, the rest is your problem". Conversely, although I'm sure there is much more to the Allison design, simply reducing the bass output to allow for room gain requires settling on the response of a 'typical' room. We could always match an amp to a given speaker to match a given room - but imagine how hit and miss that would be!
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Post by jandl100 on Nov 30, 2016 8:06:48 GMT
I'd much rather have a room that is too small than a room which is too big.
In a too-big room the music just wallows in reverberation, the whole soundstage just loses focus and images bloat, unless you sit right up close to the speakers, which kind of negates the whole big room thing to a considerable degree. -- OK, some folks like to wallow, but it's not for me.
I once went to a London dealer whose dem room was vast, for a speaker dem - "so what do you think of the speakers?" the dealer asked after a while - "I have no idea at all!" I replied. The whole thing was just a reverb extravaganza!
From my own experience and preferences I would look askance at any potential living room with a dimension more than 25 feet max, probably rather less. I want to hear reverb effects if they are on the recording but not if they're added by my own room.
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Post by MikeMusic on Nov 30, 2016 9:54:35 GMT
I went from what was probably a room of the right size to a monster, also rectangle to square.
System certainly took a step down in sound quality. Improved when I had a ring circuit just for the hifi and a bank of unswitched sockets but still not as good as the previous room
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Post by MartinT on Nov 30, 2016 22:12:19 GMT
Tonight I played just vinyl, music that I know and like. They all sounded great and better than I've heard before. The Wizard on Black Sabbath has extraordinary energy, a solid example of how great their first album was. Really good fun and lifted me after a tiring day.
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Post by MartinT on Dec 3, 2016 13:15:52 GMT
More thoughts on room treatment. I've called my room 'pretty dead' and I believe I like it more dead than I hear in many friends' systems. When I speak in a normal voice in the middle of the room, it sounds much more dead than any other room in the house: there is little echo to give bat-like feedback about the space I'm in. When I clap my hands I get no echo (the room had significant echo when empty) and just a little flutter echo (that 'zzzzing' sound after the main clap).
I've read many times about how the room should be balanced to provide some reflection, and indeed my TubeTraps are tuneable by turning them towards the reflective face or towards the absorptive face as required. I think these articles were written by classical enthusiasts used to the reverb of a big hall and missing it in some recordings. For instance, my Israel SO CD of Bernstein conducting the Rites of Spring is a strangely dead, reverb-free recording that doesn't sound natural. Yet I find myself always tuning for maximum absorption.
I feel differently about my listening room compared with many articles I've read: I simply want my speakers to do ALL the talking, and the room to contribute as little as possible. I like the resulting sound very much. Am I different from the norm?
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Post by Clive on Dec 3, 2016 15:36:52 GMT
I feel differently about my listening room compared with many articles I've read: I simply want my speakers to do ALL the talking, and the room to contribute as little as possible. I like the resulting sound very much. Am I different from the norm? The more I achieve greater transparency from my system the more I have to deaden my room, which admittedly is quite live. In other words the more I improve my system the more I hear the room, which like yourself Martin is not what I'm wanting. How normal is this? Not many people think about the room even though it's an intrinsic part of the sound of a system, though a good room shouldn't add much to the sound, a bad one can wreck it.
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Post by jandl100 on Dec 5, 2016 20:35:03 GMT
I feel differently about my listening room compared with many articles I've read: I simply want my speakers to do ALL the talking, and the room to contribute as little as possible. I like the resulting sound very much. Am I different from the norm? Well, that sounds much like my view. As I said above, "I want to hear reverb effects if they are on the recording but not if they're added by my own room."
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Post by MartinT on Dec 5, 2016 20:47:08 GMT
I think we're agreeing that the hi-fi books of old (balancing absorption with reflection, not too dead) do not agree with our views. An outcome, then!
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Post by zippy on Dec 29, 2016 17:15:46 GMT
As for matching the speakers with the room size, I've never managed to find a reasonably scientific way to match the two. Obviuosly multiple trials with different speakers will give you the subjective view, but there must be something better than that.
I've not even found a solid description of what constitutes a small, medium, or large room, nor whether large speakers are a better match for large rooms etc.
I have a feeling that my KEF's (Reference model 3~2) should really be in a larger room than my 4m x 7m x 2.5(ceiling)
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Post by MartinT on Dec 29, 2016 17:44:08 GMT
I don't think there's any formula for it. Try it and see seems to be the only way.
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Post by MartinT on Jan 2, 2017 18:30:14 GMT
Thanks, all.
Better get back on topic. I'm hoping to get the heating working again soon as the fan heater raises the noise floor somewhat. I'm still very much discovering music that I thought I knew well, sounding completely different in the new room. There is more insight, finer detail and a much better developed soundstage. Bass is far better - I played my favourite Durufle Requiem (the Shaw/Atlanta SO) and I realised how much more easily I can follow all the organ pedal notes. It was the same with the Respighi Pines of Rome (Lane, Atlanta SO), way easier to follow the bass line from the organ.
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Post by MartinT on Jan 3, 2017 13:55:56 GMT
I've moved all talk of underfloor heating, fuel, flues etc. here to clean up this blog a bit!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 14:41:53 GMT
Where are you intending to put the Gale '401' Speakers & what equipment will you be using with them?
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Post by MartinT on Jan 3, 2017 15:51:15 GMT
Where are you intending to put the Gale '401' Speakers & what equipment will you be using with them? Good question. It had been my intention to use them in the sitting room as the basis of a good sound system for the TV. However, we are having a 'disagreement' about their looks. In other words, they are being veto'd in favour of Ruth's Wharfedale Diamonds. I will keep the Gales for show use and will be bringing them to The ASBO in April. For the sitting room, I may just make peace by installing the Diamonds with a subwoofer for the TV.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 15:54:31 GMT
You mean the original Green & Black Diamonds?
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Post by MikeMusic on Jan 3, 2017 16:12:00 GMT
I like the TV with the big sound (system). We have great sound from some films and TV programmes
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 16:55:41 GMT
But no surround Sound please no.. Miles better straight 2Chan
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