|
|
Post by Sovereign on Nov 26, 2016 20:56:51 GMT
Glad you find Sovereign et al 1976 third law works for you Martin and Mike. Most suspended concrete floors are beam and block with a sand and cement screed.
I have a concrete floor, Celcon block walls and triple boarded ceiling, but just too narrow for perfect sound.
I could have a nice wide set up in the living room in the house, but to have a dedicated room spread eastward from the house is a rare pleasure.
|
|
|
|
Post by MikeMusic on Nov 27, 2016 15:23:02 GMT
If I had too much time on my hands and at least one helper, preferably two I'd move the system into the extended garage again to find out how it sounded.
I vaguely remember the floor they put in there.
Think it was concrete beams or joists, not sure what was under.
Insulation either under or over it as it had to be 2009 Building Regs
Current room is concrete from the existing house
|
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Nov 27, 2016 16:54:26 GMT
John I tried the Lenni-Kalle Taipale Trio today, track 11 Invisible Beauty of my Flower. It sounds fine, the bass doesn't load the room up like it did in my old place. There is only one note that excites the room resonance, which can't be helped.
|
|
|
|
Post by John on Nov 27, 2016 18:17:52 GMT
Thats great to hear
Its a really tough test for the speakers but sounds like you getting the speakers close to their best now
|
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Nov 27, 2016 21:15:59 GMT
To be honest, they are more awesome now than I ever realised in the old room. I think the extension and potency is actually better now than I used to have from the REL Studio II sub. Classical organ is quite stunning.
|
|
|
|
Post by John on Nov 27, 2016 21:29:45 GMT
Well you not having issues with the bass causing issues in other regions so that makes a lot of sense
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2016 23:17:00 GMT
To be honest, they are more awesome now than I ever realised in the old room. I think the extension and potency is actually better now than I used to have from the REL Studio II sub. Classical organ is quite stunning. This exercise really shows up the limitations and benefits of rooms for speakers. I know that the room I have is too small really for the Focal's I use... Shame really, because whilst I like the sound of them in here, I am sure they would be super impressive in a larger space. |
|
|
|
Post by ChrisB on Nov 28, 2016 0:32:53 GMT
It's interesting, isn't it?
Should you have the speakers of your dreams and try to bend them to fit your room? Or should you find the perfect design for you room, never knowing whether something one or two notches up might have been better?
As a species, the hifi nut seems to have generally ignored the speaker that is designed differently and uses the room as an extension of itself.
There are several fascinating papers written way back by Roy Allison on these principles. Well worth a dabble if you're interested.
Chris (long term user of AR designs as well as Mirage bipoles).
|
|
|
|
Post by BilliumB on Nov 28, 2016 4:53:18 GMT
Am I right in thinking that the speakers designed by Richard Dunn (NVA) are based on the principles in Roy Allison's papers?
Cheers. Bill
|
|
|
|
Post by ChrisB on Nov 28, 2016 6:21:53 GMT
Allison 6  NVA Cube  I'd say there was a fair chance of that, wouldn't you?! |
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Nov 28, 2016 6:24:18 GMT
Should you have the speakers of your dreams and try to bend them to fit your room? I can only relate my experience. I auditioned the Usher Be-10 (there were no 20s in the country) and loved them. I decided that these may be my final speakers so I went one up and ordered the Be-20 blind, made for me in Taiwan. The review at the time by Chris Martens in The Absolute Sound helped to decide me. Did I take a chance on it? You bet, but then I always planned to have a bigger room for them one day. I simply did what I could to squeeze the 20s into my room at the time, and it worked pretty well. However, as everyone has heard me relate since, the bigger room has been rather like having a speaker upgrade. |
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Nov 28, 2016 6:25:27 GMT
Am I right in thinking that the speakers designed by Richard Dunn (NVA) are based on the principles in Roy Allison's papers? Indeed, Richard Dunn quotes Allison's principles quite often and (I think) used to work for them. |
|
|
|
Post by ChrisB on Nov 28, 2016 6:58:53 GMT
This kind of summarises some of the thinking in a nutshell....  |
|
|
|
Post by jandl100 on Nov 28, 2016 8:21:36 GMT
It's interesting, isn't it? Should you have the speakers of your dreams and try to bend them to fit your room? Or should you find the perfect design for you room, never knowing whether something one or two notches up might have been better? Yes, interesting question. When buying my MBL speakers my initial intention was to buy the much larger 101E. But after a week or so, and discussing it with the UK MBL importer Audio Emotion over several phone calls, I changed from the 101E to the smaller 116F. I would have had real problems I feel sure with trying to get the 101E to work in my room. Getting on for 7 years downstream now and I am still happy with that decision. If I do ever move to a place with a significantly larger listening room, I can always factor in the cost of an MBL upgrade as part of the moving costs! -- although I'd need a listen as the F series bass is said to be better controlled than the earlier E series. |
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Nov 28, 2016 8:38:16 GMT
The MBL 101E certainly look like the full monty MBL Radialstrahler type design.
|
|
|
|
Post by jandl100 on Nov 28, 2016 9:01:41 GMT
Yes, I've heard the 101E several times at Shows and t'is they that set me off on my MBL Dream. But this is the current MBL full monty ...  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2016 9:14:51 GMT
Speaker/room size interface is part of the reason I went for my Electric Beach FH3s.
I would love a big pair of speakers like the Focal 1028Be, but I am unsure how they will work in my room.
|
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Nov 28, 2016 9:45:56 GMT
But this is the current MBL full monty ... I've heard them, but never with music or in a room that I could judge them properly. What I did hear was impressive in that big-speaker-barely-working-hard kind of way that I so like. |
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Nov 28, 2016 14:27:19 GMT
Thinking some more about this, there is probably a 'ceiling' of performance attainable after which a better room is required in order to justify better/more capable speakers. Quantifying this would be pretty impossible, but it could be reflected in future recommendations such that, at times, the response would be...
"you can't gain a significant further improvement until you site the system in a better room".
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2016 14:34:35 GMT
I agree that a better room is often a bigger win than better speakers. Sometimes bigger doesn't necessarily mean better though. And then there are speakers like Isobariks which don't seem to follow the rule book. I've heard them in a range of rooms and (to me) they performed best of all in the smallest one. It's never straightforward is it? Still, it's never boing either!
|
|
