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Post by pre65 on May 4, 2016 11:53:57 GMT
Firstly, I apologise in advance if this is considered "political" and therefore ill advised to discuss.
For some time I have become aware of how much we are bombarded with Chinese made products. One only has to go to any retail park and check the labels for country of origin to realise ,
A) How much is made in China
B) That which is not Chinese is invariably NOT made in UK.
Now, we as consumers invariably want to pay as little as possible (but not to totally disregard quality) so, what are the opinions of others here ?
Could we in the UK survive without Chinese made goods ?
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Post by Tim on May 4, 2016 12:44:15 GMT
Simple answer, the Western (not just the UK) world with its present desire for mass consumerism cannot survive without Chinese made goods.
Our greed is to blame, not Chinese manufacturing and if you are at all interested in how the status quo is changing to the benefit of China, read 'The End of Cheap China' by Shaun Rein. And if you like that, by the same author 'The End of Copycat China'
One thing I can tell you about Chinese manufacturing is that they learn fast, they aren't afraid of hard work and they are driven by money and image.
The economic and cultural changes that are happening here are going to disrupt the world and I can tell you now, all lot of narrow minded people aren't going to like it, but are 100% to blame. They are now enjoying lifestyles here we have taken for granted for decades and they like it and we are going to be dancing to their tune soon.
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Post by MartinT on May 4, 2016 13:10:47 GMT
It used to be Japan, then Hong Kong, lately China but a lot of it is Korea/Malaysia/Taiwan etc. Chinese made at the moment can represent anything from crap to good products. Could we survive? Possibly, but the cost of living would go up a lot.
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Post by MartinT on May 4, 2016 13:13:21 GMT
It also goes back to my hobbyhorse. The British are not prepared to pay for quality. They want cheap crap at rock bottom prices. The Chinese are simply feeding that demand.
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Post by zippy on May 4, 2016 14:03:34 GMT
It also goes back to my hobbyhorse. The British are not prepared to pay for quality. They want cheap crap at rock bottom prices. The Chinese are simply feeding that demand. I think not just the British who have this view, and not just the Chinese who are satisfying it (India for example whose multinationals now own Jaguar/Land Rover, and that most British of things, Tetley Tea) |
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Post by Slinger on May 4, 2016 15:00:19 GMT
The British may not want to pay for quality but they are daft enough to buy goods from China at a premium.. Having just spent 2 days combing eBay for camera bits 'n' bobs I'm left wondering how many people will buy something from China that costs £0.99 with free postage and how many will buy precisely the same item, right down to the descriptive text and photograph, for £1.49, £1.50, £1.58, £1.60... The difference, perhaps a week longer for delivery. Obviously in this case an extra £0.50 is not going to break the bank but why pay what is over 50% more for an item when there's no need?
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Post by MikeMusic on May 4, 2016 15:23:03 GMT
I use Lenovo computers exclusively - all made in China
I recently bought a chain splitter from China for £1.89 including postage
Insane - and a great bit of kit.
Far better than a similar one that cost slightly more and was barely usable - from China
Stopped buying unbranded bike lights from China as they were virtually disposable
Now I buy Cateye - but I bet they are made in China
Paying high prices doesn't always buy you the best paying less can work out well
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Post by MartinT on May 4, 2016 16:32:47 GMT
Lenovo are superb because the Chinese bought it from IBM and have been smart enough to continue the ethos of tough, well performing ThinkPads with a design flair and finish all of their own. They are indeed a real Chinese success story.
EDIT: Lenovo are now the world's No. 1 PC manufacturer.
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Post by MikeMusic on May 4, 2016 16:37:09 GMT
I'm sure there are others like Lenovo.
I remember when "Jap" was always followed by "crap"
That changed a bit
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Post by John on May 4, 2016 16:48:00 GMT
The Chinese have been investing a lot of land buying for hard to get raw materials
The Western world needs the Chinese but also they need us to buy from them
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barnboy
Rank: Soloist
In? Out? or just shake it all about.
Posts: 16 
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Post by barnboy on May 4, 2016 17:09:18 GMT
I know my amp (A Jungson) is from China and I have a feeling the Oppo is also built there. Both bits of kit have performed very well and I'm very pleased.
I think we all have to think outside of the UK (depending on June 23rd of course)that most of our lives are spent in a global village and that both components and finished items can come from anywhere these days whether HiFi, Cars, White Goods etc and to quote the (very) old saying 'Caveat emptor'. It is not difficult to research or use the www as a global directory to check what people are saying about your proposed purchase,long-term usage and its serviceability. The UK has invented many things but a lot of these are taken and improved upon elsewhere (football, cricket, trains come to mind)
I also have a WAD amp. very British, but is it? If I went through the source list I'm guessing 70% plus of the parts will be imported and even if I upgrade components the audiophile stuff, ALPS etc will be imported
Supporting British manufacturers is a noble cause and one that I try (unsuccessfully)to support. (Speakers and TT/Phono and cables are built/assembled in the UK)
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Post by Chris on May 4, 2016 17:45:11 GMT
I've a Chinese valve amp,tweaked in the UK. That's the way forward.
I reckon the Chinese would do well to sell quality products at good prices. It's the qc that lets them down - it's all over the place.
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Post by Tim on May 5, 2016 13:52:52 GMT
The Chinese have been investing a lot of land buying for hard to get raw materials The Western world needs the Chinese but also they need us to buy from them That's changing John, the biggest market for Chinese products will at some point switch as China now has money to buy it's own goods. China is currently putting 2 million new cars on the road a month, that's 24 million a year! China's biggest market will very soon be China, that is going to have an impact for sure. |
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Post by MikeMusic on May 5, 2016 15:48:38 GMT
Times they are a changing.
The economics of China is vast
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Post by davidf on May 6, 2016 0:20:07 GMT
There's two types of manufacturing in China. One is where a non Chinese company will approach a Chinese OEM and ask for so many thousand of a specific product (or ongoing manufacture). This is why there's so much crap out there, as corners will be cut, cheap materials used, cheap labour etc. The other type are where products are either made in factories owned and run by the non Chinese companies (like Bowers & Wilkins), or are made under strict supervision of the company in an OEM factory. This produces a far higher quality product - and when China does it properly, they do things extremely well.
I'm not averse to buying Chinese made products (I think everything in my system is Chinese made except my turntable, albeit in factories run by the relevant manufacturers), but I hate the fact that we hardly make anything ourselves any more. I do wish things would change and bring more manufacturing back to the UK, but these manufacturers have too much money invested in their Chinese factories to make it worthwhile to switch back.
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Post by davidf on May 6, 2016 0:22:58 GMT
Times they are a changing. The economics of China is vast And we put them where they are today, undermining ourselves in the process. All because we wanted cheaper stuff. Makes you wonder what position we would be in if we'd have kept manufacturing within the UK. Sure, things would be more expensive, but we'd have healthier export figures, boosting our economy and employment figures. |
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Post by MartinT on May 6, 2016 5:22:05 GMT
We should have gone up the quality ladder, like the Germans have done very successfully with cars. However, Germany respects its engineers while the British don't on the whole.
Interestingly, we do seem to want German cars!
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Post by MikeMusic on May 6, 2016 6:48:44 GMT
My point and I believe Tim's is that China is so big we need to adapt to the new world.
Japan changed the world upping product quality and lowering prices.
That will be very small when China comes fully on stream.
Cheaper is part and parcel of the improvement of design and manufacturing.
We're strong in Pharma and Financials plus others I'm unaware of, armaments might be one.
If we keep areas to specialise in we're ok
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Post by julesd68 on May 6, 2016 9:18:17 GMT
How do Chinese ebay sellers manage to send stuff so cheaply?
I've bought a few items at £0.99 with free postage - it's just crazy ...
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Post by julesd68 on May 6, 2016 9:33:39 GMT
I agree 100% about the QC side of things.
I love my Consonance amp - it's a fabulous performer and the physical construction is great, but did need some attention from an engineer to deal with some stuff early on that shouldn't really have been necessary.
My old Consonance cdp probably needs a new transport but I guess that could happen with any of them ... The replacement, another Chinese spinner by Shanling is doing very nicely so far.
My hi-fi is pretty cosmopolitan now -
Scottish turntable, Slovenian tonearm, Japanese cart and SUT, American phono, Chinese amp and cdp, Japanese tuner and cassette deck, Brit speakers ...
and mainly Hungarian tubes!
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