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Quad 306
Mar 31, 2016 21:19:04 GMT
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Post by Clive on Mar 31, 2016 21:19:04 GMT
The tops of caps are often just a soft cover. It might have nothing do with them being ready to blow. I did consider that but didn't want to take the risk as the amp is renowned for those caps being a problem. Dave, the 306 opamp isn't in the signal path but the zeners powering them benefit from caps across them as there are knovk on effects on the rest of the amp.
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Post by MartinT on Apr 1, 2016 4:41:09 GMT
Looking at the photo, I would say three of them at least are on their way.
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Post by dsjr on Apr 1, 2016 20:45:17 GMT
I've seen loads of caps in my time and I really don't remember ever seeing tops like this bulging so from new. better bulging tops than leaking all over the board as apparently happens with the small 34 supply caps...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2016 20:53:58 GMT
It tends to happen with caps that have a top insert when they are placed in a hot environment. Audion amps often look like that, although it's been shown to be superficial. I can't speak for those Quads but the fact they are squidgy at the top suggests it's just the plastic insert at the top which has become mis-sharpen. Once the new caps are fitted it would be easy to check the old ones out and see for definite
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2016 21:05:00 GMT
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Post by dsjr on Apr 2, 2016 17:19:59 GMT
I hadn't taken full notice of the product portfolio Stan-the-Man has designed for. Some wonderfully endearing products he's done under the radar
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2016 17:23:47 GMT
I REALLY like the sound of his kit. He's one of the few who seems to be able to produce a consistent sound. I like the immediacy and rhythm his designs have. I could happily line with one of his amps. I. Still waiting to try a CD3 but I will do one day.
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Quad 306
Apr 2, 2016 23:35:01 GMT
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Post by Clive on Apr 2, 2016 23:35:01 GMT
My DMM only goes to a couple of uF so I can't check their spec. Given the caps in 306s suffer from heat I'd rather bin the 85C ones for 105C new ones and get greater capacitance to boot. Mis-shapen sacrificial plastic covers can't be a good thing, it suggests to me heat is an issue.
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Quad 306
Apr 3, 2016 9:07:47 GMT
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Post by Clive on Apr 3, 2016 9:07:47 GMT
It looks like the capacitors were manufactured in 1988. 28 years old. I glad I'm changing them.
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Post by dsjr on Apr 3, 2016 11:08:53 GMT
I've said many times that I've see two 405's for myself (plus others I've not owned) where the late 70's caps were fried at eleven years old, and not heat-thrashed either as loud hard rock wasn't then on their menu from new.
No offence to Quad, but the 405 and 306 designs was kept as small in footprint as possible and not just the heat factor, the capacitors then available weren't really small enough. It's different now I think and you could happily up the temperature to 105 degrees and double the cap value without compromise I think.
I've played around with supply cap values here to a limited extent, going from 7,000uF on the Crown D-60's to 22,000. The bass reproduction may possibly be ever-so-slightly more 'organic' in nature, but really, the main difference is that the amps take far longer to shut down once disconnected from the mains supply. The smaller amps I make seem to get by quite happily on 4,700uF caps and I've discovered it's the transformer capacity that really matters to speaker-driving ability in a subjective sense - I'm quite sure that the transformer and reservoir supply should be optimised as a pair really, but I don't have the maths either way to confirm prior to confirmation by listening.
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Post by pre65 on Apr 3, 2016 11:20:04 GMT
Russ Abbott (Andrews), when he was mainly into audio upgrading, always recommended fitting the biggest VA rated transformer possible.
This is something I try to do on my DIY builds.
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Post by MartinT on Apr 3, 2016 12:21:47 GMT
In a full-wave rectifier power supply, the transformer VA versus capacitor value determines how quickly the reservoir capacitors charge, while the capacitor value and load current determine how slowly they discharge. It's a fine balance getting it right but generally over-value transformers do no harm.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2016 13:36:04 GMT
I've said many times that I've see two 405's for myself (plus others I've not owned) where the late 70's caps were fried at eleven years old, and not heat-thrashed either as loud hard rock wasn't then on their menu from new. Doubt that the introduction of hard rock has that much bearing on how loud amps were driven from new in the 70s/80s. Maxing out amps wasn't just a prerogative of head-bangers Also worth bearing in mind that 405s were a popular choice for PA racks - I came across quite a few when I worked in theatres at the time (used for music and FX). Also eBay regularly has 405s for sale that show clear evidence of rack mounting and heavy use.
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Quad 306
Apr 3, 2016 13:52:59 GMT
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Post by Clive on Apr 3, 2016 13:52:59 GMT
I can't tell what the VA rating is for the PTX; it's an ILP but they've stopped producing toriods. The PTX looks a decent size. Dave's point about case size is salient. Making the case the same size as the preamp and tuner was aesthetically a good move and no doubt margins were improved but I can't help thinking some vents would have been a good idea.
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Post by dsjr on Apr 3, 2016 14:44:38 GMT
You know, I think it's nice that we can talk about these Quad amps without some numpty throwing up... You know what I mean, the brand stank in flat earth circles as 3 ohm load driving in bass and midrange wasn't a priority for Quad until the (pro 500 and)606 came along - and even that was sniffed at by Colloms and Co I remember as he was into the Absolute Sounds portfolio by then (Quad probably didn't pay for his 'consultancy' services at the time). It's only in the last several years that I've really appreciated what the old 303 can do once re-furbished sensitively. The 405-2 especially, when well warmed through, took this lovely midrange and spread it to most of the bass and hf and for me anyway, the 606 (early ones needed to warm through for best grain-free high frequencies ime). Hope the 306 will do the same with very sensitive speakers
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Post by Dave on Apr 4, 2016 4:10:16 GMT
If you are worried about heat build-up try planting the 306 onto some tallish feet which should help improve air circulation under the unit a little. On a hot day (sitting on its original feet) mine could get quite toasty, however since placing it on taller, turned brass spikes I've not felt the temperature rise above luke warm.
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Post by dsjr on Apr 4, 2016 9:11:34 GMT
Heat is a funny thing with amps but I worry about cap lifespans..
The Krell KSA50S has 'plateau biasing,' which works well. The thing runs cool on idle so it can be left on for hours, but play some spirited music through it and it gets 'red hot' in a minute or two. The circuit used is one of those 'Why use one transistor and capacitor when twenty will do instead?' and if playing music at a fair lick, I worry for its remaining life as the whole case gets so hot - on another note, I'm amazed it sounds as good as it does, for all the silicon and circuit track the signal passes through. No sign of anything amiss just yet, but I do regularly hear tales of such amps needing masses of attention after twenty years driving lower impedance loads and even the later FPB models are falling foul of this now. How long before the D'Agostino models do the same - and Stereophile aborted tests on one amp system due to thermal issues and there was outcry of preferential treatment being carried out.
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Post by Clive on Apr 4, 2016 9:22:30 GMT
I too worry about heat and elect caps. I once had a 2A3 heater regulator which the designer said was fine but I was never convinced. Due to the ripple current running through the caps they were constantly so hot I couldn't touch them. Ok they were 105C rated but it's asking for trouble.
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Post by chukka on Apr 4, 2016 13:11:17 GMT
Take heart Dave: Somehow I doubt you'll be the only one who's less than flattered I thought Chukka was joking. yes, indeed. Sorry if it was understood otherwise. All the best. PS nice thread on a great little amp
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Post by ChrisB on Apr 4, 2016 13:27:36 GMT
I wonder what Colin's take is on this cooked components business?
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