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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2016 17:56:35 GMT
I seem to remember Gazjam doing a well documented DIY build using an Airlink. Not sure of the forum but IIRC ot was a good read and he was very careful with any safety issues. Maybe a link here would be a good resource for potential DIYers.
Maybe Sovereign could also give us a link to his DIY build, which again I'm sure I've read but don't know where or when.
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Post by Sovereign on Mar 15, 2016 21:00:59 GMT
Trouble is, bespoke large *toroidal* transformers may well add a lot to the cost for all I know. Fine if you're making up for yourself DIY fashion, but the BMU is expensive enough at £500 as it is - and the margins involved were discussed ages ago at being roughly what Rega mark up to their dealer 'trade' price, which is less mark-up than Linn and Naim I believe, although the dealer margins on top of this are rather larger than Rega offer. I agree I think £500 what you get from from NVA is probably an incredible product as I said a few months back. It's got to be one of the best deals out there. And NVA kit always looks very smart, I would advise anyone wanting balanced mains to pick up an NVA BMU because anything else you gets that kind of money looks like it's been made in the garden shed. The large balanced toroid that I have made for me costs and awful lot of money comparatively speaking.
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Post by Sovereign on Mar 15, 2016 21:04:34 GMT
I seem to remember Gazjam doing a well documented DIY build using an Airlink. Not sure of the forum but IIRC ot was a good read and he was very careful with any safety issues. Maybe a link here would be a good resource for potential DIYers. Maybe Sovereign could also give us a link to his DIY build, which again I'm sure I've read but don't know where or when. Gazjams DIY thread is very comprehensive I think in the end the transformer was quite loud and he had to put it in another room. I'll try and dig out my thread if I can find it, although my thread somewhat incomplete.
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Post by Sovereign on Mar 15, 2016 22:14:36 GMT
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Post by ChrisB on Mar 15, 2016 22:25:40 GMT
Thanks for that. So, in this thread we have kind of gathered that the Airlinks may be an alternative. I looked at them and concluded that the case they use was probably a bit tinny and had the potential to wheeze and rattle a bit (as I mentioned at the time), so I thought it might be best to look elsewhere. Are there any other alternatives?
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Post by Greg on Mar 15, 2016 23:07:07 GMT
OK, both Gazjam and Ali Tait have done this and posted their build experiences on AOS and Audio Talk. I can't find the threads now, but no doubt if you search on those forums you'll find them. The threads are old and photo's are no longer viewable. Basically I have been given to understand that that the greater the Va, the better the sound gets. My limited experience seems to support this view. Story is, I trialled the NVA BMU. It made a worthwhile difference to my sound. You will however recall that in our reviews, both Martin and I commented on a loose 13amp modular socket in the trial unit which pulled out when stiff cables or tight fitting plugs were used. Whilst this is not good, it for me was not a principle concern. It did however, give me the opportunity to have a peek inside the chassis and have a look at construction and wiring. Whilst I have no doubt the BMU is totally safe, (and being a DIYer for many years) I was not impressed with what I saw, particularly in terms of the internal wiring. As said, it should be absolutely safe, but My expectation was to find a much higher standard of construction. Whilst I understand the Tx mounting process hi-lighted by Dave previously, in comparison with other equivalent units on the market, it is decidedly very DIY especially as only a 1000Va toroidal Tx is fitted. I have no doubt that thick sections of expanded plastic packaging material, coupled with a shed load of Bison glue poured over the Tx and it's mounting works, but it's an unprofessional solution. My view is (taking into account my observations), a 1000Va unit with four sockets in a very large Perspex chassis at £500 is probably not the best value for money. Inspired by my positive review on the performance of the BMU, my good mate managed to acquire a Airlinks CBS1500 from an auction on eBay for £123. That was a nice deal. He found it improved his sound. He brought it to me and I concluded the same in terms of performance. We took the cover off and found the internals remarkably well constructed and in my view, very superior to what I could see peeking inside the BMU chassis. So I went on the hunt for a second hand Airlinks and for £200, picked up a BPS2000. I have used it in my system and my friends system and we have both concluded it has a better impact on sound than both the NVA BMU and the Airlinks he has. My unit is basic with little in terms of spike suppression and additional filtering, but as I have a filter I can use if I wish and spike suppression filters on the back of the IEC sockets on my DIY amps, for me this is not a problem. My 2000Va BPS works very well for me and although it has a slight buzz at certain times of the day, it really is an inaudible problem that does not spoil my listening. Going back to what I said at the beginning of this post, the bigger the Tx, the better. For a 1000Va BMU, at £500 it's expensive. For the same money, you could have a BPS from Airlinks with twice the capacity, bringing further improvement to your sound. Furthermore, the Airlinks units are a third of the size of a BMU and although they have less output sockets, most of us will need to add a distribution block in any case, so this nulifies that consideration. Oh, and consider, Airlinks have been constructing BPS for years and they are widely used in music and recording studio venues. www.airlinktransformers.com/balanced_power_supply/Note that prices do not include VAT. James (Sovereign) has probably got it altimately right, but in terms of upgraditis, what I and my friend have done is a move in the right direction and better than what I originally considered.
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Post by Greg on Mar 15, 2016 23:14:17 GMT
So, in this thread we have kind of gathered that the Airlinks may be an alternative. I looked at them and concluded that the case they use was probably a bit tinny and had the potential to wheeze and rattle a bit (as I mentioned at the time), so I thought it might be best to look elsewhere. Are there any other alternatives? The Airlinks chassis' are constructed from well painted thick folded steel. There is no buzz from the casework and the unit as a whole can be totally silent. As said, I have noticed a slight buzz from mine at times of busy community electrical use, but to be sure, it is not audible beyond six inches from the unit. My friend considers that overall, my 2000Va unit is generally quieter than his 1500Va unit.
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Post by Greg on Mar 15, 2016 23:19:17 GMT
Sovereign's link is not the ones both Ali Tait and Gazjam put up. When I have some time, I'll seek them out and publish, but in the mean time I've offered sufficient information for peeps to do their own searches.
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Post by dsjr on Mar 16, 2016 8:10:39 GMT
Greg, bearing in mind the THICK Perspex casework, how else can a transformer be firmly attached to it? The loose socket shouldn't have happened and when I get the unit back I'll check it out and report, with pics if you like. As for internal wiring, what do you expect, cable ties (no-no) or lengths of excess allowing socket replacement on a sealed box? Apologies Greg, sour grapes methinks I'm sure the Airlink range is a very fine range of products, but the metal casing will need the extra protection and so on that Pinky was going on about for so long. I'm happy with my choice though. I ought to mention again that *apparently,* 1KVA should be more than ample for most domestic situations, even with a big amp connected. The Doc ran the full six amp Cubix Pro setup with the standard 1KVA BMU with no obvious compression - each pro amp had two large transformers in each supply box. What you *apparently* don't do is add up all the capacities of the mains transformers in your stereo set. Sorry all, I don't mean to steer this thread back towards NVA, as it's patently NOT about them. Hope the points raised are helpful though.
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Post by ChrisB on Mar 16, 2016 8:11:22 GMT
I believe there are also models available from Russ Andrews and Ben Duncan. Does anyone know anything about these? Anyone ever seen one in use?
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Post by MartinT on Mar 16, 2016 8:38:06 GMT
The Russ Andrews units are here. At those prices, you owe it to yourself to test against a regenerator, too.
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Post by MikeMusic on Mar 16, 2016 9:42:27 GMT
A 2nd hand P5 will be less than a lot of those
A P10 is/was on Ebay for around £3500 and I'm sure will trounce the lot
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Post by chukka on Mar 16, 2016 10:35:49 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2016 11:15:02 GMT
Greg you are turning this into another NVA slagging thread. Perhaps you would be better posting on AOS where you will get people that agree with you. You obviously don't understand the difference between the NVA design and the Airlink. RD has lose 'untidy' wiring in his designs as a matter of principle to improve SQ and how is thick metal superior to thick perspex. Metal is a no no for the NVA class 2 regs design which should be safer in operation. Wasn't following your spat with RD and the others but not surprising you got yourself banned judging from your attitude - bet it was for ad hominem
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Post by pre65 on Mar 16, 2016 11:22:40 GMT
I really understand where Greg is coming from on this.
I admire RD for his knowledge, and for his product, but there is no way I could ever deal with him, even if he let me.
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Post by dsjr on Mar 16, 2016 12:49:01 GMT
THAT'S WHERE I COME IN FFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When you borrow an item from NVA, you deal with ME and I act as the filling in the sandwich in administering the loan scheme. NOBODY NEEDS to deal directly with RD himself, at least on a personal level.
Greg, I quote from an email today, which I think is kosher to post -
"Back to Greg, I really cannot remember why I banned him, I must have had a reason I don’t do it lightly. PLUS there is no such thing as a lifetime ban, if he joined again under another name and doesn’t cause problems he would be a member, we really don’t check up on people. It has worked as there are a couple there like it as it leaves the past in the past and gives a new start."
I don't normally do this, but since one or two have the same vibes, I think it's ok to do...
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Post by MartinT on Mar 16, 2016 13:00:12 GMT
Guys, that's enough from everyone now. We do not have petty biases here and we talk primarily about the product. Feel free to critique the NVA, Airlink and other components but please stop with the ad hominem now.
Thank you.
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Post by chukka on Mar 16, 2016 13:32:46 GMT
+1
oh man this is so predictable. Greg IMO has every right to be pissed off, I think I would be as well. He gave his opinion on the device, even pointed to alternatives and gave his opinion on those too. Man, what more can he do ? For my part, I got the information I was seeking.
What is so taboo about being critical about this company, in particular ? Every time a product of that brand is mentioned in a thread, half of it fills up with claims like "you are turning this into another NVA slagging thread", posted by members acting like guardian angles who won't tolerate the slightest questioning, critique of a product or the Guru himself. Sometimes, its like they where on a mission. And why can't the Guru himself reply ? Because he was banned. Why was he banned ? Decide for yourself. There is ample material for that.
In any event, all this is not going anywhere and I would really appreciate if we could just stay on subject, debate, compare and leave out all the rest.
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Post by ChrisB on Mar 16, 2016 13:49:08 GMT
The NVA BMU thread was being polluted with off topic stuff about other devices, so I moved all of that here. When I gave the title to this thread 'alternatives to the NVA BMU', I expected the discussion to be about......errr, well......alternatives to the NVA BMU.
Let's do it like that shall we?
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Post by Sovereign on Mar 16, 2016 14:35:47 GMT
Greg, Personally I didn't find that the higher the Va of a balanced transformer the better the sound of my Hifi. But I did find an excellently designed balanced transformer to improve the sq of my Hifi. In the end, as you know, I went for an excellently designed toroid that was able to stay dead silent, even up to 5kVa, which really is quite an achievement in itself, most people who opt for an off the peg balanced toroid larger than 2kVa or so have to start thinking about siting them in another location other than near their Hifi. I have found this slightly dependant on the noise on the mains to begin with, either this or they have to consider suppression, filteration or doping to dampen down the noise of a large toroid.
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