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Post by MartinT on Oct 16, 2018 5:56:14 GMT
My first impression is a slight improvements in focus and imaging. Smoothness improves a bit as well. However, the volume in total is lowered about 1 to 2 db. And one thing I in particular dislike is the bass portion becoming weaker and less punchy even though I tune up the volume accordingly. Sorry I didn't reply to this at the time. I don't have the same experience with the SPEC units and have kept them as I like what they do with the sound. It could be that you have them differently wired than me? I have the Coherent 6D speaker cables going into the bass terminals for shortest path to where the largest current goes (twin bass drivers with combined 4 ohm impedance needs a lot of current). I then use Coherent BD jumpers up to the mid/treble terminals. I attach the SPEC units to the mid/treble terminals as it has the greatest effect on midrange. See photo further up. In this configuration, the sound quality is very natural with enhanced soundstage and tremendous detail in the midrange without ever being harsh. I found no lowering of bass content (?) or lowering of volume. It makes me wonder about your connections. Of course, the power amplifier is also part of the circuit and will influence the outcome. My Belles SA-100 is a very high current capable solid state power amp, perfect for the Ushers. What has been your experience? Did you keep the SPEC units?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2018 9:53:20 GMT
Martin, do you find that having BD jumpers after 6D cables provides an upgrade to sound? Do you think you’re getting the best out of them by mixing different levels of gear?
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Post by MartinT on Oct 16, 2018 10:17:28 GMT
Yes, I ran the BD jumpers for a short while even while using Tellurium Q Ultra Black speaker cables, the jump in sound quality made me laugh out loud when I first heard them. I never would have fingered the jumpers for the first upgrade but Tony 'House MD' of Coherent had a 5 minute listen to my system and suggested we try them first.
The look of disbelief on my face must have been comical, but he was right.
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Post by MikeMusic on Oct 17, 2018 11:26:02 GMT
BD jumpers had the same effect on my TAD E1s. Has to be heard to be believed - and even then you struggle Also 6D speaker cables
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Post by steve59 on Jan 2, 2019 15:15:09 GMT
BUMP. I got a nice clean pair of BE-20 DMD dancers last night and by the time I got them, 11 hrs of driving, seeing, loading the truck, more driving, and finally getting the salons up stairs and the BE's down it was late I was tired and my back was toast! even without the plinths I get a feel for the potential, the bass, mids, imaging man, I think I might have finally found some synergy in my room and I haven't even installed the plinths yet. A hegel H360 powers them with a roon nucleus and tidal mostly, kimber 4 tc speaker wire and a generic usb cable from the server to the hegel. These are replacing a pair of salon 2's and I can hear placement/treatments will be important to keep the mid range balance in this room. so far i'm pleased and once the pain killers kick in (ibuprophen) i'll work on the bases.
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Post by MartinT on Jan 2, 2019 15:41:13 GMT
Hi Steve Welcome to the world of Usher Dancers, I doubt you'll regret your purchase. Heavy, aren't they? A few points: 1) remove the front plates covering the compartments at the bottom of the speakers and see if there is any loading material inside. They are best loaded up - I used recycled lead from a marine merchant (recycled from old yacht keels) - about 30kg in each. 2) I learned the hard way that absorbent decoupling feet, rather than the provided heavy duty spikes, sound best for good bass definition. I use three big washing machine feet under each speaker. They get very compressed but form the perfect coupling with my hard floor. 3) You're going to need far more revealing cables than Kimber 4TC, which I did use years ago. 4) Position them quite far apart and toe them in. They image and soundstage impressively well. Get these speakers working well and they just increase their game as you improve your system. I haven't found the limits to mine yet.
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Post by steve59 on Feb 3, 2019 0:38:44 GMT
Thanks martin, I put the plinths on and thought the bass was going to be too much until I put the spikes on and the really tightened up. It will be awhile b4 I change anything just because I'm so completely enjoying them now. I will check in tho' add insight.
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Post by MartinT on Feb 3, 2019 10:56:21 GMT
Glad you're enjoying them. The Hegel should do the job well.
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Post by MikeMusic on Feb 3, 2019 11:23:41 GMT
If you have something squidgy try that.
My wobbly Townshend stands are great.
Martin uses washing machine supports for a good result at a lot less Worth a try if you have them around
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Post by MartinT on Feb 3, 2019 12:23:36 GMT
I knew those Lidl washing machine feet would come in useful sooner or later.
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Post by steve59 on Feb 11, 2019 15:44:37 GMT
HEAVY!My kid and me got the salon2's up the stairs and the be-20's in the house and down the stairs in the same evening and we were gassed. My room doubles as a computer room with desks along 1 wall so the speakers are from left 6'off wall 9' apart and 3' off right wall with about 3' between the front wall and back of speakers. My listening chair makes a triangle and I end up losing hours at night listening as 1 song leads to another. Dynamic and musical are the first thoughts then resolution and presentation. 6 weeks now and i'm waiting for the other shoe to fall. I still haven't found where they compromise, I'm reading reports of xover upgrades but until I hear something I think needs improvement i'm just going to sit back and enjoy the music. The R105/3's were here for over 25 years and at least 10 pair tried to earn a home here b4 these and it feels weird being done! the salon1 had the dynamics and musicality of these but not the presentation, the salon2 had everything but the dynamics and while that could have been the hegel's fault I needed speakers that worked with what I have. VA makes musical and dynamic speakers but the couple pair I had didn't quite have the resolution. The new Kanta 3 from focal might be a contender when used ones start showing up, but for now nothing near the price can touch these.
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Post by MartinT on Feb 11, 2019 15:55:12 GMT
I'm reading reports of xover upgrades but until I hear something I think needs improvement i'm just going to sit back and enjoy the music. Me too. Nothing has made me wish for different speakers since I bought the Be20s. I did say that they would be my final speakers and I'm still convinced that's the case. That review in The Absolute Sound was spot on - I still remember reading it during my stay with my sister in Houston and thinking I'll try to hear them when I return to the UK. Job done!
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Post by julesd68 on Feb 11, 2019 16:01:00 GMT
HEAVY!My kid and me got the salon2's up the stairs and the be-20's in the house and down the stairs in the same evening and we were gassed. You must be in good shape to do that - my back has been suffering for 3 months since lifting my new speakers into the car. I was doing it myself but nowhere near the weight of your Ushers!
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Post by MartinT on Feb 11, 2019 17:15:32 GMT
Going back to that original review in The Absolute Sound, I thought it would fun to revisit the same recordings used. This section is absolutely spot-on, having just played the same piece on Qobuz.
The Clark Terry big band recording is also well worth playing.
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Post by The Brookmeister on Apr 11, 2019 21:12:50 GMT
Just looking at their website Martin knows why, and FFS look at the words below, obvious spelling mistake not good really!!
Technology Employing the usher Diamond DMD Technalogy, our Diamond DMD speakers have a new tweeter unit with an USHER Diamond DMD dome. The DMD dome is effectively a diamond dome with a reduced mass and a well- controlled, appealing sound signature, resembling very closely a perfect piston in its behavior.
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Post by MartinT on Apr 12, 2019 5:00:39 GMT
Hah! Luckily, my Be-20s are the earlier version with the beryllium tweeter and a lot less 'hot' than the diamond one.
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Post by jandl100 on Apr 12, 2019 8:21:36 GMT
Yes, the Usher DMD diamond tweeter implementation is awful - why do they make them so bright? I've heard 3 different DMD models -- screeeeech. Your Beryllium tweeter is well balanced, Martin, so they can clearly do it right if they wish.
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Post by MartinT on May 16, 2022 18:03:13 GMT
Usher Be-20 Speakers - Some Real World Observations
Having lived with them for 14 years, I thought I should return to writing about my Usher speakers as they have, in that time, seen out every single other component in my system. They have been ever present, ever reliable and just grown with system changes.
So what is it about these large beasts that has made them so long lasting, so reliable and so able to improve with each and every system change?
Appearance They are large and very heavy, weighing in at 160kg with about 2/3 lead shot in the bottom compartment. However, from the front they are not overwhelming in appearance, in fact quite narrow, as their almost 1m depth is hidden from view. They are also rather nice pieces of furniture with a beautiful wood finish and shaped black baffles. Their drivers are all protected, requiring no overall front cover.
Placement Surprisingly, they can be placed quite close to the rear wall, their overall rearwards lean and the base plinth determining how close they can go. They still image very well considering this proximity to the rear wall. They do not like close side walls, however, meaning that firing across the short length of the room works best.
Toe-in with the inner faces pointing directly at the listening position works best for me, giving very focussed and layered imaging, quite remarkable for such large speakers.
Mine work very much better on Townshend Podiums, decoupling the cabinets from the floor and allowing the bass to breath tighter and deeper. Counter-intuitively, bass is more potent on the Podiums with the cabinets swaying gently on them. Getting the speakers onto the Podiums from a lying down position is hard work and as much as I could achieve on my own. Plan for lots of time getting the positioning just right by shuffling them around. This helped, in my case, by sliding them on polished ceramic tiles.
Technology The midrange and tweeter are beryllium domes, a material notoriously difficult to work with. Despite the later DMD model tweeter being made from diamond, I prefer the earlier beryllium tweeter as they integrate better with the midrange where the DMD stands out. I suspect that cost reduction and marketing were really responsible for the switch away from the beryllium tweeter.
The twin bass drivers are 11" German Eton units, very fast and light and able to simultaneously achieve deep extended bass courtesy of the rear firing ports and great upper-bass punch in fast moving music. I have seen powerful air-moving waves in the low twenties Hertz on my spectrum analyser, as much as my double-garage sized room allows.
Load & Driveability Being of 4 ohms load, these speakers prefer (and deserve) a high current solid state power amplifier with prodigious instantaneous current ability. My previous Chord SPM-1200E did a decent job with them, while the Belles SA-100 is an outstanding combination giving great low level detail and sounstaging while also being able to move substantial air with its 32A maximum current output stage. The damping factor of >2000 also helps with bass driver control.
In order to assist further with speaker loading, I use a pair of SPEC RSP-901EX Real Sound Processors at the speaker connection panels. These bring out the midrange detail and overall help the Ushers to sound even more classy.
Sound Here is the difficult section. In the time the Ushers have been in my system, they have improved time and time again as other system components have been upgraded. Does this mean they are transparent? I guess so, because every time I thought I heard a limitation, it turned out to be something else. Do they reproduce fine detail? I didn't even know what ultra-fine detail could sound like until I got my grounding boxes, power supplies and master clocks well sorted. The treble is very well resolved such that a tiny bell at extreme stage right or left is easily heard from the mix, while a brushed cymbal in hi-res digital is a thing of beauty and the note decay in a big auditorium just goes on forever. That tweeter is world class.
The beryllium midrange is no less wonderful and I have often said that a speaker with less than stellar midrange performance is useless to me. Voice must be right; projected, uncoloured and realistic. I have no issues with the Usher midrange.
That leaves the bass and those twin drivers really do deliver, sounding even more potent than twin 11" drivers might suggest. They go deep and floor-shaking (about as deep as my old REL Studio II subwoofer) and they're fast, with JBL-like upper bass punch when needed.
Imaging is astonishing for such a large speaker. Not just side-to-side with no hole in the middle even in my wide placement, but the depth and layering of the soundstage is extremely pleasing, giving dimension to the stage and instrument placement. This is perhaps the most surprising aspect of their performance and something it took me many years to unlock.
Weaknesses To be honest, it's hard to listen to music through them and think of weaknesses. A couple of users have reported success in swapping the crossover components for superior items, and there were a couple of upgrade crossover kits available at one point, but this may just be a rainy day project for me, if I ever feel the need.
Conclusions There are lots of areas where the Ushers excel and none where they fall well short. They represent a lot of speaker for the money and, most importantly, they are unlikely ever to let a system down until that system is exceedingly high end and capable. I would never have contemplated keeping anything in the same system for 14 years otherwise. I can possibly see them being my final speakers. In real-world terms, to my ears, the £20k Ushers are roughly the equivalent of £40k Wilsons, and that's no bullshit.
An end game speaker? For me, that's looking decidedly likely.
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Post by John on May 16, 2022 19:12:47 GMT
Nice revisit I think I have probably heard a lot of your system changes.
If you are okay, I'll give my own experience with this.
I heard your speakers at your other place. The bass overwhelmed everything else. I think you had the chord and Ayre SACD player. I put it down to the room. The Belles and room of your new home helped a good bit, but the bass still lacked texture, and I used to think a crossover issue between the treble and mids. It had improved a lot, and I could see you were heading in the right direction. Next up came the podiums. I am now actually liking your speakers and seeing why you stuck with them. Bass is more defined; I was no longer hearing what I thought was a crossover issue. It must have been picking up something in the audio chain. I was sensitive too. The last time I visited, it was a wow moment for me. There was a level of transparency and clarity I had not heard before. Everything seemed to just gel. I thought you finally arrived. Grounding has helped a lot along with your level of detail you have put to the digital chain.
I know you will keep pushing and seeing what is possible, as just part of your nature
I do see these as your end game speakers unless you no longer have the space for them.
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Post by stellabagpuss on May 18, 2022 19:40:06 GMT
Great re visit Martin, l always think it's a good sign when you can hear a component changes. l ran a combo for nearly 20 years of MA studio 20Sec and A Tom Evans Pioneer A300r Precision Full monty amp. The reality they became old, but l could always hear component swap over, and l struggled to find something that bettered that combo,without going crazy...Those Ushers sound like great speakers
Damien
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