I have to say that the Marigo Ultima continues to work for me and is used as a matter of norm. Since my system stepped up in resolution, I hear what it does more clearly and it simply makes the disc sound more real with better soundstaging, air and space around the music. It is not cheap, but I justify it on the grounds that I can afford it and it improves the sound quality.

I think so. Certainly I didn't used to think there were such audible differences with mats, mains cables, supports etc. Now they seem more obvious.

Without a proper blind test you will never know if it's not just placebo effect. Why are the subjectivists on the forum so against blind testing? Is it mainly because they are a pain to organise? It's a genuine question, personally I wouldn't shell out (or even try) a cd mat unless I had proper (repeatable) evidence that it made a difference.

It doesn't confirm it works though because we don't know that it isn't placebo effect. You don't know it isn't placebo without a blind test. Even knowing about the placebo effect doesn't prevent it from influencing opinions.

If it's easy to do a blind test why not do one?

"I don't allow placebo or expectation bias because I don't have any".

How do you know?

Lawrence, I really don't understand how the experience I had when I first tried the mat could be caused by a placebo effect.
Please explain it to me as I genuinely don't understand.  But first, can I ask that you read what I said here again, to be sure you are aware of exactly what happened?

I had already read the original post, but I've read it again just to make sure.

I can't explain how the placebo effect works, I don't think anyone can. It's subconscious so by definition you aren't going to be aware of it being there. By definition people can't know if they are experiencing it or not just by examining their own experiences. That is why I was surprised to read that you knew that you weren't experiencing it without having done any objective testing to reach that conclusion.

For example with medication, even if people know they are being given sugar pills, they still experience the placebo effect. It's a measured effect proved by objective trials.

You've stated before that your subjective experience is that many acquisitions of products such as high end cables (even USB and network), equipment supports, power filters etc. make a noticeable difference to sound quality. I therefore think it is probably inevitable that you do have some expectation bias. I don't think I'm being unreasonable in believing that. If you believe that these products can make a difference, you surely must admit that it's possible that there is some placebo effect taking place when you try a new product?

I realise we aren't going to agree, and I'm very happy to agree to differ, but I'm just interested in why you are against proper objective trials given that Chris has stated that they are easy to arrange and it would give the objectivists something to mull over. As an objectivist I have to take all subjective statements with a pinch of salt, it's in my nature and I can't do otherwise. After all, I come across people every day who say they believe that their God intervenes in the world, and I treat those kind of claims with scepticism, why are your claims any different (in the nature of the claim). As David Hume said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence!

Yes it make sense. I'm interested to know why you aren't interested in A/B swaps - if they could make sure that you can reliably tell the difference.

Perhaps it's because they are a pain to conduct (although I am being told they aren't).

I admit that I have expectation bias in the other direction.

That's why it would be nice for the people who take the effort to try these products to add into their testing a proper blind test just to see what the results are, for the benefit of those members who don't always believe that subjective opinions are all that reliable.