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Post by John on Jun 16, 2015 15:17:55 GMT
Clive: can i add that this im using sounds the closest ive ever heard digital to a top flight turntable. i was quite took back tbh..But i think it's more the hands on of records i love most of all. F307 I would suggest that these days you need to have a quality TT set up that costs more than the equivalent digital to get close where as some 5 or so years ago it was clearly the other way. However I would say they both have their own sonic traits that will appeal to different groups for different reasons. I would agree with this
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2015 15:17:59 GMT
Hi Tony I am now able to see the screen Bug Head has quite a lot perimeters to adjust SQ Getting the best SQ First bit is having a computer/ laptop with 16gb ram On the first page adjust the settings till it says 0% It will tell you on the right hand side toward the top. Adjusting the Dimm on the left hand side helps the player go into professional mode. Also pick the driver you require Then when you get to second screen the computer takes 1min to load (very slow by your player standards) On the top of the screen If you click normal this where you get your your choices towards how it will sound I suggest go with what Clive says first as he has more experience in professional mode than me. o get into being able to adjust on the top of the GUI towards the right hand side you two boxes beside the right hand side you see the rate and something like LPF Free to describe the file. Click next to this box about 1 mm on the right hand side of the box and anther screen will appear. Click command line and blank screen You can also go into mmx and adjust in that too if you wish, all will slightly alter the sound Press play and wait till the memory loads The load time is it biggest issue the next is getting use to the interface I think your player is better, certainly in terms of functionality But it sounds very good in hibernation/professional mode I did have a brief look at the code last week, I understand what their are doing with regard to the loading of file into RAM which I hinted at in an earlier post. Due to the way the player works and as much as is humanly possible of the back ground services have been removed load time for a average red book 440Mb file is virtually instantaneous as you know, single biggest file I have is 3.2G (studio master we made a while ago) that takes around 8-9 seconds. I will load it on the M-sata this evening and have a play with it further, see it we can't review how it load the data stream into the ram and presents it to player segment.
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Post by John on Jun 16, 2015 15:37:41 GMT
I guess how it loads is very different to yours which is very speedy. With the Bug Head when you get to the slower load up time this has a positive effect on SQ. Like the difference between MP3 and redbook in SQ Worth having a listen to it in professional/hibernation mode
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Post by Clive on Jun 16, 2015 15:44:19 GMT
I agree with the comment that a TT now needs to be quite high end to seriously compete with good digital. It's possible to achieve a high TT on a budget if going with 2nd hand, still not cheap though.
I'd like to explain by what I meant by digital being comparable to my TT. For starters there has to be a lack of harshness, a decently full sound, certainly not thin and of course good detail - these are just tablestakes. Where Bug Head scores is that I get a similar soundstage, imaging, instrument separation and central focus. I use OB speakers which make these characteristics obvious to hear. Using the Galaxy 10 filter which John selected, Bug Head achieves reasonable musical flow, though I feel Bug Head does start/stop very well whereas my record deck has better decay. Bug Head has the depth of my record deck. My record deck is better with dynamics but I'm using a London Reference cartridge which might well over-egg dynamics.
One more thought....Bug Head requires a ceremony to set it up for optimal sound, this to me is analogous to checking a record deck is at the correct speed, level, getting out the record cleaning it and the stylus. Such a ceremony weds you to the idea of playing the music you've selected and for my personality makes me enjoy it more. It's a bit like going for a long walk and then to the pub for some beer - the beer tastes better and is more rewarding than if you skip the walk.
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Post by Clive on Jun 16, 2015 15:47:06 GMT
Worth having a listen to it in professional/hibernation mode This is very necessary if you are to hear it at its best. The difference with professional & black screen is not small.
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Post by Clive on Jun 16, 2015 16:23:33 GMT
Latest.....don't run Bug Head 4.91 unless you have W10. For W8.1 use 4.90. The developer tells me 4.92 will be back the DirectX 9 so it will work with W8.1.
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Post by John on Jun 16, 2015 17:01:59 GMT
Thanks will watch out for that as kept the PC in W8.1 My laptop is 10 but no point as cannot upgrade the ram
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Post by John on Jun 16, 2015 17:52:14 GMT
Thinking about this once I get the PC able to run in professional mode I will upgrade to 10 as a nicer interface to use
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Post by gazjam on Jun 16, 2015 18:08:00 GMT
Interesting thread guys.
Memory play was a bit of a mixed bag for me and I found it very dependant on which software, kit and configuration it was used on. With Jriver, it was actually detrimental to sound quality when playing music over the network, due to the data stream ALREADY being buffered from Ram as its being read from the network. From a USB drive though it gave a small but useful improvement, Not night and day though. This is the way I set up Brian's server.
Dabbled with Jplay as well, including the dual PC setup, Hibernation mode and the like and eventually came back to stock Jriver with my own modifications. Jplay did change the sound, arguably for the better depending on your personal preferences, but I'm one for the cleanest most direct route to my ears as possible and JPlay got in the way of that. When the guys over there came out with their commercial cables and the like I thought that was when they "Jumped the shark" for me. That said..I've bought it and can get the free upgrades so might have a play again just for fun.
For me, getting the best out of PC audio is all about minimising system processes, overcooked hardware and anything that gets in the way of the signal path. Inside a PC is electrically very dirty and reducing and optimising this can give substantial gains, Minimise as much crosstalk as you can, particularly with light to power supply if you can. Clean linear power is the way to go, even more so if you can run discrete linear power rails to the individual parts making the music.
The best configuration I've heard is optimised Windows Server 2012 (running about 8 services in background) on minimum hardware throttled right back with full discrete linear power feeding everything. Best interface imo is USB and yes, cables DO make a difference. in fact everything does.
My takeaway from PC audio is that it's never as black and white as it might seem on paper and that everything can make a difference. Like any other kind of audio, synergy is key and even different players can sound different, worse or better with the same hardware and vice versa.
@stanb The Touch is a great bit of Kit Stan, had a few in my system over the years. Finally settled on its big brother though the Transporter. If you think the Touch sounds good wait till you hear this thing.
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Post by John on Jun 16, 2015 18:13:14 GMT
Like Tony I think Jplay has somehow taken a wrong track as I just cannot enjoy the sound Great post Gaz I just like to add if using a laptop you not going to be able to do much to the how the unit is set up so a memory player is your best option I always wanted to experiment with Windows server 2012 but it costs has prevented me
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Post by Clive on Jun 16, 2015 19:57:01 GMT
I feel the sources of noise on computers are many, for sure the memory players are more treating the symptoms rather than the cause but these players are the most many of us can work with or have time to experiment with. I'm hopeful this area will be better understood soon and we can get some off the shelf hardware, it really should not be hard or expensive to fix much of the noise.
BH 4.92 is out now so the W8.1 compatibility issue is fixed.
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Post by John on Jun 16, 2015 20:43:46 GMT
That did not take the guy long to sort
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2015 22:13:15 GMT
All interesting & thanks John for clarifying what you were on about, i still don't have the foggiest idea tho However when you are more than happy with what your hearing/using , like i am, i have absolutely no desire to alter things, but i guess i don't have the audio enthusiast sickness anymore Thanks again John..
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Post by John on Jun 17, 2015 4:10:22 GMT
Lol
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Post by MartinT on Jun 17, 2015 6:38:30 GMT
I would suggest that these days you need to have a quality TT set up that costs more than the equivalent digital to get close where as some 5 or so years ago it was clearly the other way. If you could have heard the Cat Stevens - Tea for the Tillerman 2 x 45rpm set I received last night... However, I do agree that really high quality digital replay is coming into the realms of quite affordable now, whereas an investment of approaching £10k is required for a seriously good turntable/arm/cartridge and phono stage in order to match or beat it.
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Juha
Rank: Soloist
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Post by Juha on Jun 17, 2015 19:55:30 GMT
I did my own audio player about one year ago. Here is a picture: This is a copy-paste player that plays exclusive mode Wasapi on default sound card. Set default sound card from Windows Control Panel / Audio. It is light weight taking just 1% of cpu. I have tested this also on high resolution audio. Here is the download link: StreamerPlus playerSome issues on player programming: 1. There is a temptation to throw in some compression and eq. Microsoft DirectX has these services easily available. Reading and testing many players I am sure this has been done to enhance. I did not do it. 2. Memory play. I don't think so. Microsoft has spent years and years on optimizing everything. All things possible are buffered all over the place. So "memory play" is automatic. Proof for this is HD video. HD video just would not play without heavy buffereing.
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Post by MartinT on Jun 17, 2015 20:11:12 GMT
That's clever, Juha, using the clipboard to quickly load music files to memory.
I think the concept of memory play with music files is based on the entire file being preloaded so that NO disk access occurs during replay.
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Juha
Rank: Soloist
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Post by Juha on Jun 17, 2015 20:40:00 GMT
Here is one idea to memory play with any player. RamDisk for WindowsI will try this with my player and see, if it makes a diffrence on sound.
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Post by MartinT on Jun 17, 2015 21:38:27 GMT
That still won't prevent disk access for other services.
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Post by Clive on Jun 17, 2015 22:13:24 GMT
I should mention that jplay, mqn and bug head also use the clipboard.
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