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Post by MartinT on May 24, 2019 7:27:51 GMT
Just to add to this old thread, I switched my last non-Coherent power cable, feeding a QP-1 supercap power supply for the digital streamer, with a Coherent 6D. As with all the other cables, and much to my surprise in view of what it's powering, it still made a tremendous difference to the sound. More tightly focused, with better decay in instrumental sounds and a more realistic portrayal of human voice, this 6D has done as much for my system as all the others.
I have a BD feeding the P10 regenerator and 6Ds feeding all components now.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2019 8:42:38 GMT
Coherent users, what colour tips do you use for your various cables? After speaking with Tony, I've decided to go for all black (apparently the most neutral sounding) all round, this is for power, loudspeaker and interconnects. I get your question now. My 5D speaker and interconnect cables are all blue I believe.
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Post by MartinT on May 24, 2019 10:00:21 GMT
Is this the colour of the Coherent brand sleeve in the middle of the cable, or the heatshrink on the ends?
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2019 10:07:14 GMT
Martin, your particular cable ends are black +1 and black, which delivers more dynamics and insight, the 'straight black' gives a touch more openness and slightly better separation with a more laid back presentation.
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Post by jandl100 on May 24, 2019 10:22:19 GMT
That sounds the right one for Martin!
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2019 10:41:49 GMT
That sounds the right one for Martin! Hi Jerry Hence my selection of those components for that particular application
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Post by MartinT on May 24, 2019 11:04:30 GMT
Heh, heh!
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Post by MartinT on Sept 2, 2022 7:00:04 GMT
After talking with Tony I have a Coherent BDM power cable arriving shortly.
This means I can upgrade both my regenerators (and therefore the entire system) by assigning the new BDM to the P10 regenerator (for primarily the power amp) and moving the current BD cable to the P3 regenerator (for the source components), taking a 6D out of service.
Knowing how good and almost unique Coherent power cables are, I'll discuss at more length what they do once I've made the changes.
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Post by MikeMusic on Sept 2, 2022 8:55:32 GMT
Be very interested to hear your findings
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Post by stellabagpuss on Sept 2, 2022 18:56:57 GMT
All ears Martin
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Post by MartinT on Sept 3, 2022 8:31:12 GMT
My Power Cable JourneyI first became aware of power cables being talked about in terms of making a difference when I read about Russ Andrews’ own journey and findings in magazine articles, some of it based on Ray Kimber’s work. I would need to go back into my archive of posts on CIX to find out exactly when, but it was sometime in the 1990s (no, I’ve tried and the archival posts don’t go back far enough, although I found many posts with MikeMusic and I discussing mains issues way before TAS was born). Needless to say, there were a lot of naysayers at the time with quite fierce objectivist opinions and not a lot of science. The arguments divided into the “can’t possibly make a difference” camp and those where were convinced they could hear a difference or were open-minded about it. I won’t bore you with the endless debate (and the repetitive and tiresome “there are kilometres of ordinary power cable leading to your house” trope), but suffice to say I was intrigued and ordered a Kimber Powercord with some trepidation to hear for myself what it was all about. Yes, I could hear a difference, which in itself was noteworthy. For all the objectivists telling me I was wrong and imagining it, they were not hearing what I was hearing. End of debate, as far as I was concerned - I was in. For many years, I have conducted thought experiments on the possible mechanisms at play which could explain why a power cable can make such a difference to a hi-fi system. Is it pure resistance, or impedance as a measure of inductance and capacitance together with resistance? Do materials affect it? Or crystal structure? What about shielding or braiding? Insulation type? Connectors? I believe it is a mix of a number of these properties. However, the key attribute would appear to be EMI and RFI rejection, up into the gigahertz range. I learned much later on about how this kind of noise can pollute a digital replay chain, but I’m getting ahead of myself. With analogue systems, power cables do make a difference but it’s not what I would call a make or break upgrade. This experience is mollified by the fact that I didn’t have so many good cables when my analogue system was at its peak, but my feeling remains that good cables are nice to have when the system is well sorted and sounding good, but they won’t rescue a bad system. With digital systems, in my opinion, power cables are much more fundamental to the performance of the system. I’m going as far as to say that power treatment, including good cables, is essential if you want your digital system to sound great. In simple terms, noise (both phase - frequency domain - noise, and jitter - time domain noise) in the digital replay chain is highly damaging to the signal when it enters the DAC. The effect is not that of noise over the music, it manifests as a more pervasive reduction of soundstage and detail in the music. In fact, noise creates a reduction in overall presentation and the creation of ‘digital harshness’. Noise fundamentally impacts the conversion threshold of each data bit into the DAC where the ‘bits are bits’ argument falls away due to lack of understanding. Over the years, I have bought Kimber, Russ Andrews, Neotech, Paul Hynes, Mark Grant, MCRU and some other no-name power cables to try out. I have tried making my own from base materials. I have also borrowed several cables in pursuit of the best sound. Some have worked well while others have made minimal differences to sound quality. I have tried silver as well as copper cables, with rhodium, silver and gold plugs. One thing I have learned is that rhodium connectors create a horrible edge enhancement effect. It cost me a lot to eradicate them by changing all the Furutech FI-1363 rhodium plugs to gold ones. Once I tried my first Coherent power cable (a 4D), the sound quality improvement went up by a significant step. I have mostly 6D cables in the system now, with one mighty BD feeding the P10 regenerator. This is about to change as I will be taking delivery of an even mightier BDM today and will upgrade the P3 regenerator by passing down the BD to it. This will, in effect, upgrade the entire system. It’s interesting that the two best cables I know – Kimber and Coherent – are braided and not shielded designs. I know from watching Tony construct these cables by hand that many hours or days go into making a single cable. Imagine trying to braid Medusa’s hair? As an aside, fuses play an important role too. I have SR Orange in my regenerator feeds and SR Red in the individual component feeds. I only use SR Purples in the DDC and DAC feeds. This seems to balance the system well. Nothing I have tried has come even close to how well the Coherent cables work in my system, including some seriously expensive Kimber and Furukawa cables. It’s the reason why my system uses Coherent power cables exclusively (except for one longer run of Supra) and others have all been long disposed of. So why do Coherent power cables sound better than anything else? Well, I don’t really know! I’m fairly convinced that they suppress more EMI / RFI than any other cable. In what way a braided cable does it better than a shielded cable is a mechanism that remains a mystery. Perhaps by inherently filtering out noise rather than sinking it to ground? Maybe. Kimber uses a drain wire in his braided designs – perhaps there’s a clue there? So, in what ways do Coherent cables sound better, then? That’s easier to describe. They reduce the noise floor and, in so doing, bring out more soundstage and fine detail than any other cable I know, not to mention wider and more natural dynamics. Their effect is profound, making organic music rather than ‘hi-fi’ sounds – music that ebbs and flows, with a highly fluid and communicative midrange where voice benefits tremendously. Music with the natural fine detail to help differentiate between instruments, and with the snap and clout to tell you you’re listening to a real performance rather than a facsimile. Just remember, power cables don’t achieve all this on their own. Your system must be fundamentally well sorted first, with quality components all working in harmony. Take a well performing digital system and populate it throughout with good power cables, though, and you will with virtual certainty improve its performance. This is a serious and costly undertaking, and it’s best to start with your most sensitive source components and work upwards. The combined cost is going to exceed that of any single component, but then the combined effect will better that same outlay used in other ways. All of my experience and learning confirms that good power cables are essential to get the best from your system.
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Post by MikeMusic on Sept 3, 2022 10:05:27 GMT
You're the one that persuaded me mains cables could make a difference I assumed you were wrong but took a punt on Ebay at the cheap Russ Andrews end Proved they made a difference. Upgraded a lot not believing each time the next one up could still improve on the previous
Unobtainium is the answer to what goes into Coherent cables Pixie dust and ground Unicorn droppings could also be at work
I found very noticeable differences in analogue equipment even low end Standard and Classic Russ Andrews cables on my then LP12, Naim 32.5/HiCap and 135 Power amps
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Post by MartinT on Sept 3, 2022 10:23:25 GMT
Perhaps I've underplayed the benefits in analogue systems, Mike. I'm really just amazed at how much of a difference they make to digital systems. Digital streaming is what I use now so you'll have to forgive my somewhat 'digital thinking' nowadays.
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Post by MikeMusic on Sept 3, 2022 10:40:50 GMT
Maybe digital is where even the cable deniers have to change their minds if so much more than analogue
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Post by MartinT on Sept 3, 2022 10:41:35 GMT
I meant to add: I want to give a shoutout to the MCRU No. 9 power cable as the 2nd best cable after the Coherents. I have two of these trusty beasts and they always perform well. Today I had cause to slot one into place while shifting cables around in preparation for the BDM later today. They still show a clean pair of heals to other more expensive cables I've tried. So, while the Coherent cables remain King, the MCRU No. 9 is highly recommended if you just can't stretch to one.
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Post by MikeMusic on Sept 3, 2022 10:43:06 GMT
Yes I have always been impressed by the No.9 Number 9, Number 9, Number 9, Number 9, Number 9, Number 9, Number 9, Number 9.....
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Post by HD Music & Test on Sept 3, 2022 14:47:05 GMT
Elvis has left the building
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 3, 2022 17:31:23 GMT
Maybe digital is where even the cable deniers have to change their minds if so much more than analogue "Cable deniers" LoooL Do we need quasi religious categories of believers and deniers?
It's not like we are talking about the equivalent of evolution or the like ...
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Post by MartinT on Sept 3, 2022 17:45:17 GMT
The BDM is here and plumbed in. I must say, on a purely aesthetic level, the bronze/gold lustre cable looks the dog's danglies. More importantly, the new pairing of cables are already performing on an elevated level. Much more later when I've gathered my thoughts.
| Feeding | Previous | Now | P3 regenerator | Source components | 6D | BD | P10 regenerator | Power amp, pre-source components | BD | BDM |
Both cables and regenerators have SR Orange fuses.
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Post by HD Music & Test on Sept 3, 2022 17:56:08 GMT
Maybe digital is where even the cable deniers have to change their minds if so much more than analogue Do we need quasi religious categories of believers and deniers?
It's not like we are talking about the equivalent of evolution or the like ... Joolz,
You not met the nurdism side of deep dark audio enthusiasts, beware the ides of Offical Cable Delusionalist (s) either camp clearly sit on both sides of the great wide debate of more tea Vicar?
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