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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2017 21:14:05 GMT
Some good advice Looking at your last picture I have a few suggestions about the room and layout Maybe Like what Martin has down have furniture to dampen some of the reflections in your room Try the speaker in different postions and angles. Perhaps toe out a bit The edgy treble is not to do with resolution as Mike system shows a good system will be very listenable I had a similar issue for years. Using felt around my Tweeters when I had floorstanders helped a lot, even more than mains in my case. Try the cheap options first, sometimes a simple change to the speakers can make a huge difference Good set of suggestions there John, I'll have a think what I can do.
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Post by John on Apr 6, 2017 4:07:40 GMT
A couple of suggestions around the server Black Raviolli supputs will help the streamer a lot a better mains cable might help too I do not know the Naim streamer so not sure how much it is worth investing in tweaks for this Speak to Tony about loaning some Black Ravioli big feet and see if they make a difference
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Post by MartinT on Apr 6, 2017 7:15:16 GMT
Try also having the rack and/or speakers on soft decoupling rather than spikes. This softens any harshness and brings out the bass (surprising, I know).
Have a look at what you can do for your power arrangements, although bringing out more detail may just accentuate the issue. If the Naim streamer is the problem, try building a Pi with Volumio and use the Beresford DAC which is a great all-rounder and not harsh. Use a battery and put it on a good support, these things are vital.
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Post by julesd68 on Apr 6, 2017 7:21:16 GMT
Paul, are you convinced that the Focals are the right speaker with your Exposures?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2017 8:04:03 GMT
Paul, are you convinced that the Focals are the right speaker with your Exposures? No Jules, but I have invested a lot of money in them and the Naim streamer and also wouldn't know what to get as an alternative for the speakers.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2017 8:06:17 GMT
A couple of suggestions around the server Black Raviolli supputs will help the streamer a lot a better mains cable might help too I do not know the Naim streamer so not sure how much it is worth investing in tweaks for this Speak to Tony about loaning some Black Ravioli big feet and see if they make a difference Hi John, I have recently bought some StillPoints from Mike which I will be using post my Birthday (same day as the ASBO) and they make a surprising amount of difference to the streamer. Additionally I bought a good quality mains cable from Mike too which also made a lot of difference, good pieces of kit.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2017 8:10:08 GMT
Try also having the rack and/or speakers on soft decoupling rather than spikes. This softens any harshness and brings out the bass (surprising, I know). Have a look at what you can do for your power arrangements, although bringing out more detail may just accentuate the issue. If the Naim streamer is the problem, try building a Pi with Volumio and use the Beresford DAC which is a great all-rounder and not harsh. Use a battery and put it on a good support, these things are vital. How does soft decoupling work?, tony mentioned it to me a while ago for the speakers, but I don't really get the principle. I am going to put my SB Touch back into the system this weekend with my Beresford Caiman II DAC to compare it to the Naim steamer once again, I am intreagued, as I am sure the system went 'downhill' once I bought the Naim streamer to be honest.
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Post by MartinT on Apr 6, 2017 8:23:36 GMT
You may find it at least as good as the Naim (and less harsh) if you use a battery for the Caiman-II, I found this gave a substantial upgrade to the sound. If you like what it does, sell the Caiman-II and buy a Caiman SEG which is another jump upwards in SQ.
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Post by John on Apr 6, 2017 9:23:08 GMT
Bring the server along to the ASBO as quite a few different versions off pc based music and should give a better insight to what is going on
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2017 10:20:57 GMT
You may find it at least as good as the Naim (and less harsh) if you use a battery for the Caiman-II, I found this gave a substantial upgrade to the sound. If you like what it does, sell the Caiman-II and buy a Caiman SEG which is another jump upwards in SQ. I already have a Anker battery for the Caiman and it did make a significant difference to the DAC. The only thing I find frustrating about it, is that you have to disconnect the batter from the Caiman to charge it, i.e. you can't have it connected at the same time.
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Post by ChrisB on Apr 6, 2017 13:11:20 GMT
Bring the server along to the ASBO as quite a few different versions off pc based music and should give a better insight to what is going on Yes, let's try squirting it into a couple of different dacs, for starters. I, for one, will be bringing one Paul can try.
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Post by julesd68 on Apr 6, 2017 15:57:24 GMT
Paul, are you convinced that the Focals are the right speaker with your Exposures? No Jules, but I have invested a lot of money in them and the Naim streamer and also wouldn't know what to get as an alternative for the speakers. Totally understand Paul but if it was me, I'd be trying to pinpoint exactly what the issue is in the system, because if it is the Focals that aren't quite doing it for you in combination with the Exposures, I don't think changing peripherals is going to give you the change you actually need and you might waste a lot of time doing it. I think you need to hear some different speakers in the system. Is there anyone near by who could let you try a pair? If it turns out you do want to move the Focals on they will have excellent resale value and there's no shortage of good speakers to replace them with. I went through quite a number of speaker swaps before ending up with my Tannoys that's for sure!
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Post by dsjr on Apr 6, 2017 17:13:37 GMT
More 'deetail' can also mean more harshness that makes things appear 'exciting' at first, but which soon wears on you. I have to agree with the sentiment that the best stereo's just go louder and louder until the neighbours complain or your ears bleed - the big ATC's I once owned and still grieve over just seemed to have it all and the generation mine were from LOVED realistic 'monitoring' levels. later ones were better at reduced volume, but what I'm trying to say is how effortless they were and I could play them for hours at a time without ever feeling the need to turn them down or turn them off when the neighbours were out.
One thing that might not have been mentioned is whether the sound changes with volume. If peaks or higher volumes causes fatigue or distress, then the amps may not be up to driving the speakers to highish levels - just a thought so don't shoot me yet... If it's the same at most volumes - and it wasn't there with the ES14's you loved for years, then just maybe, the speakers may be over-egging the sonic pudding, and I do know the smaller ones used to remove fillings at times, with their overdone hf levels - I'd probably leave Kudos and Neat alone for similar reasons. Not sure if the modern examples have corrected this. If you think it's the speakers perhaps, try to get a listen to some of the current Spendor floor-standers, which are rather different tonally and dynamically to the over-ripe lush-boxes they often made over twenty years ago and which will have hardened cone surrounds now to boot (doesn't apply to original SP1's and previous models, although old BC1's have their own issues...).
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Post by MikeMusic on Apr 6, 2017 17:27:11 GMT
When I first heard the system it sounded off and boomy. After a few mods it sounded pretty good. Preferring the CDX2 to the HDX admittedly. We listened for a while and the sound was fine.
What mods since them ?
Could the Exposures are limiting the system I wonder....
I'd still turn everything off bar the system and listen.
BTW I often have my Caiman connected while the battery is charging. All fine it seems
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Post by dsjr on Apr 6, 2017 17:39:51 GMT
Naim CDX2 without add-on power supply can sound 'hashy' and rough - I've done the comparison. A shame they hobbled it so you needed to add-on at extra expense to make it work properly as it should. Listening for a while allows ears to get acclimatised to the sounds being heard - and if you've travelled to hear it, an hour to get over the journey is usually called for in my experience... One final thing, try to get a listen to a local trad-jazz group at a local venue (pub with good beer ). This should acclimatise any listener to the real sound of brass (trumpets and saxes) and drums. I appreciate that recording and mixing these instruments compresses them somewhat, but there are enough great 1950's recordings of such music out there, supremely mastered to digital to help in system decision, placement and tuning.
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Post by julesd68 on Apr 6, 2017 18:10:27 GMT
If I was to put my money on pin-pointing the issue it would be the specific combination of Exposure and Focal.
Exposure amps are known for quite an up-front, 'bouncy' sound and Focals aren't known for being shy either, so maybe that could explain why the two in tandem *could* be a bit much.
I really like Dave's idea of going out to listen to some decent live music so that you have a great reference in your mind of 'real' sounds.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2017 22:01:33 GMT
Good suggestion Dave, I think I'll look into that actually.
Hmm Jules, I always thought that Exposure amps were supposed to be warm sounding. But then again that's likely when compared with Naim amps which are certainly on the brighter side.
When I compared the Belles integrated that Tony lent me, it was certainly a warmer sound than the Exposures.
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Post by MartinT on Apr 7, 2017 7:12:46 GMT
One final thing, try to get a listen to a local trad-jazz group at a local venue (pub with good beer ). This should acclimatise any listener to the real sound of brass (trumpets and saxes) and drums. I've often said that a live sax played close is an awesome thing. There is much more rasp than you might imagine. Reproducing that realistically is a serious challenge for any hi-fi system.
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Post by julesd68 on Apr 7, 2017 10:21:57 GMT
How did you like your system with the Epos ES-14's Paul?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2017 13:38:27 GMT
How did you like your system with the Epos ES-14's Paul? Loved it Jules, was just after a little more detail and depth of bass. To be honest, when I first got the Focal's I was very happy, I think the subsequent 'upgrades' have potentially knocked the system away from my preferred sound.
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