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Post by MartinT on May 9, 2016 5:28:26 GMT
Some of the larger Focals (and many of the older JM Lab models) can be great speakers but they need a clean system behind them. They are not what I would call forgiving. However, give them a great source and good powerful amp and they sing!
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Post by dsjr on May 9, 2016 9:46:31 GMT
Every time I come to this thread, all I can hear in my mind are Focal speakers! Try to forget sockets, plugs, gear-racks and minor details and have a careful look at the speakers themselves and their reaction in your room. Hi Dave, Focal speakers can be bright and the model mine replaced (1027 Be) had a bit if a reputation but the 1028 Be are considered to be a lot more balanced. I wanted a speaker that was brighter than the Epos ES14 I had previously as I started to find them a little dull in the treble so the Focal's were a great upgrade as they had all the good qualities of the Epos but with a lot more detail and brighter. The room could be an issue though to be fair as they are a much larger speaker than the ES14 and I was warned about them being a little big. My room is 15x11 feet although I find they work really well, maybe a little over heavy in the bass department but I don't find that a problem. The brightness of the speakers is compensated by the warmth of my Exposure amps which also balances the sound out well. The issue I've had recently though I generally don't think had anything to do with the speakers, it was as described earlier to do with the AV amp and interferance. The Exposure's are susceptible to Radio interferance and the AV amp is full of mains born nasties so was undoubtedly caused a roblem. Paul. I wish to apologise once again if my posts are patronising in tone! Below is 'fact' to me as I knew Robin well and had many, many chats about the ES14, visited the nearby factory when in Chesham and he kindly lent me several pairs over the years, cataloging certain possible changes and gauging my (and others) responses to them before finally settling on the final editions you, I and others ended up with. The later ES14's were designed by Robin Marshall to have the port bungs in and positioned close to a wall in an attempt to make up for the lack of deep bass when used with more neutral sources. The reason is that the later main drivers had weaker magnets to allow for more undamped 'slop' in the cone movement and needing the air-spring in the box to better damp them I believe. I settled on the bungs in sideways which sorted my sound compromise out, as well as that for many customers. The very first ES14's were designed for free space mounting and any attempt to block the port resulted in a dead and over-dry sound, devoid of acoustic. I know you used yours sans bungs and I 'told you off' about this before, as 'bass' when used this way resulted in a 80Hz honk-boom that isn't 'bass' at all in reality, although in certain circumstances you may prefer the richer 'tone' of this presentation. As for the ES14 tweeter, the later bass unit meant a change in capacitor value to bring the thing in at a higher frequency to help mask its 2 - 3db greater sensitivity over the revised bass-mid driver which had lost sensitivity due to the centre pole piece replacing the one-piece cone as well as lower flux in the magnet. Robin admitted that this tended to make the tweeter 'sssparkle' far more than it should, but the Linn-Naim dealers he'd allied himself with (for purely commercial reasons) liked it and so they stayed this way until the end. Had he not been eaten up by Mordaunt-Short, the tweeter would have had a re-design, but it never happened sadly. The tweeter was exposed rather and never reticent in my experience of many pairs in different rooms, so if you suggest that yours were lacking up there, I'm deeply worried as the opposite should have been the case, even after all this time. I worried that the Focals were the same only more so. The stand models did have an over-hot tweeter setting I remember, and taking the port bungs out of these resulted in the same boom-fizz kind of tone, which really isn't realistic. Your floor standers do seem to measure 'flatter,' but the tweeter does seem to have a slight life of its own still. Perfecting sockets, cables and racks will just hopefully slightly tweak what you're perceiving, but won't fix a main issue if there is one - the Exposures had a big warm heart as I remember, so shouldn't be adding harshness unless the 3 - 4 ohm load is crippling them prematurely. Apologies again. I'm trying to help, not hinder with sanctimonious barbed comments. I need to investigate the current Spendor floor-standers I think, as they've updated the balance to bring the mids out more (they're not as 'safe' as Harbeths can be with lower powered amps). I've had a disastrous few weeks trying to get some loaned Harbeth SHL5's to work in my sitting room. Boxes on stalks they may have been, but I wish I'd not been sokeen toflog my ES14's when I 'discovered' ATC, as the 14's would have been wonderful sounding here...
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2016 16:37:26 GMT
Hi Dave,
Thanks for your comments, I agree that I used to listen to the Epos how I preferred them with the bungs in but that was because I found them far too bass light and actually dry and boring without. The minute they had the bungs removed, for me they opened up, sounded exciting, bass levels and depth improved markedly and overall I just liked the sound better. I remember you used to quite regularly tell me off for it, but I wasn't likely to change as I preferred the sound. My Exposure's, and especially when I bought the second one and bi-amped them, more than controlled the bass so I had little if any boom even with the bungs out. The dullness I described above wasn't unpleasant, if anything it was easy to listen to but I was just looking for something a little brighter and more detailed and found that in the Focal's.
The thing I find most interesting about Hifi and some of the people and companies that make Hifi is that a lot of them, not all, think that because it measures better, it sounds better, but do they ever listen to them?, also we know that all people are different, and one thing that sounds good to one person, will sound horrible to another. I remember listening to a system not so long ago at a Hifi show that was worth a ridiculous amount of money and was being rated as the next best thing because it measured this and that, and quite frankly thought it sounded horrible… it was bright, had no soul and well just horrible.
With regards to my recent issues, I kid you not that it was driving me potty, and I was seriously thinking I had made a mistake and potentially left the system in an unbalanced situation that was going to cost me a lot of money to resolve, but the minute I transferred the AV amp out the problem went away. What kept me going throughout was the fact that I hadn't had the problem prior to upgrading to the stand - some 6 months after I purchased the speakers, so I was pretty sure it wasn't anything to do specifically with them and I was right.
On another note, the day I sold my ES14's, I put them back into the system to give the new owner a chance to listen to them, and to be entirely honest, I was so thankful to be able to go back to the Focal's afterwards, so I knew I had made the right decision.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2016 16:41:55 GMT
Some of the larger Focals (and many of the older JM Lab models) can be great speakers but they need a clean system behind them. They are not what I would call forgiving. However, give them a great source and good powerful amp and they sing! Precisely, and I think that my Exposure amps and Naim source's do that nicely
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2016 10:59:32 GMT
I have finally managed to separate the Surround Sound amplifier from the main system by buying a new TV stand that it fits on. Additionally, I'm only using the unswitched socket for the Hifi now after a reorganisation of the components. The sound of the system has definitely improved following the change, it appears to have tightened up and maybe with a little bit more detail. Also I've take the source out of the 6 Way block and put it directly into the unswitched socket which Mike and I tested when he came over for a Hifi session a few weeks and that certainly improves thing too. The Hifi stand now has less components on it, which may or may not be a good thing, not sure but it's definitely more rigid than it was before which I can only assume is good. Hifi Stand:Room:New TV Stand:
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2016 12:05:39 GMT
Focals need careful paring electronics and then they can produce some very good sounds, however it is a fine line between getting it right and having the resulting sound deliver first class non invasive ear wax removal!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2016 12:30:41 GMT
Amazing how people can remember exactly what equipment they have had. I have had so much i could never remember, i only get reminded when a topic arises.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2016 16:30:57 GMT
Focals need careful paring electronics and then they can produce some very good sounds, however it is a fine line between getting it right and having the resulting sound deliver first class non invasive ear wax removal! I agree Tony and I think I'm finally getting that balance right, which certainly wasn't the case when I first bought them! Although I can still make improvements 😀😜
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2016 12:51:53 GMT
As mentioned in a previous post, I decided to add a turntable - a Rega RP3 with an RB303 arm and Audio Technical AT120E MM cartridge (I thought it was a Rega Planar 3, but apparently it is a 2011 later model which was known as the RP3). I tried it out yesterday and all was not well ... it appears the phono card in my Exposure amp might be up the spout. The dealer I purchased the turntable from are sending me a loan Rega Phono amplifier to confirm 100% that it is not a fault with the turntable itself, which I should receive on Tuesday. Pictures of the turntable below and an updated pic of the rack with the turntable installed Turntable:Arm:Cartridge: Rack:
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Post by julesd68 on Nov 5, 2016 14:19:31 GMT
Focals need careful paring electronics and then they can produce some very good sounds, however it is a fine line between getting it right and having the resulting sound deliver first class non invasive ear wax removal! I need to get my ears done - costs me £80 a time for microsuction - maybe I could listen to badly set up Focals and get it done for free!
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Post by julesd68 on Nov 5, 2016 14:21:02 GMT
As mentioned in a previous post, I decided to add a turntable - a Rega RP3 with an RB303 arm and Audio Technical AT120E MM cartridge (I thought it was a Rega Planar 3, but apparently it is a 2011 later model which was known as the RP3). I tried it out yesterday and all was not well ... it appears the phono card in my Exposure amp might be up the spout. The dealer I purchased the turntable from are sending me a loan Rega Phono amplifier to confirm 100% that it is not a fault with the turntable itself, which I should receive on Tuesday. Pictures of the turntable below and an updated pic of the rack with the turntable installed Nice one Paul - when you get it properly up and running will you stick with the 120E or will you be tempted to get something a little more exotic ?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2016 14:55:37 GMT
As mentioned in a previous post, I decided to add a turntable - a Rega RP3 with an RB303 arm and Audio Technical AT120E MM cartridge (I thought it was a Rega Planar 3, but apparently it is a 2011 later model which was known as the RP3). I tried it out yesterday and all was not well ... it appears the phono card in my Exposure amp might be up the spout. The dealer I purchased the turntable from are sending me a loan Rega Phono amplifier to confirm 100% that it is not a fault with the turntable itself, which I should receive on Tuesday. Pictures of the turntable below and an updated pic of the rack with the turntable installed Nice one Paul - when you get it properly up and running will you stick with the 120E or will you be tempted to get something a little more exotic ? Certainly for the moment it is going to very much be a second source Jules so I'll probably stick with the 120E, but I understand there are lots of great upgrades you can do to the RP3 which can make it sound better and better, so I might think about it in the future, yes
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2016 14:56:56 GMT
Focals need careful paring electronics and then they can produce some very good sounds, however it is a fine line between getting it right and having the resulting sound deliver first class non invasive ear wax removal! I need to get my ears done - costs me £80 a time for microsuction - maybe I could listen to badly set up Focals and get it done for free! Where do you get them done Jules?, I was thinking i should really consider it at some point.
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Post by julesd68 on Nov 5, 2016 15:01:46 GMT
If in doubt Paul you should definitely go - most places will look at your ears for free and only charge if they need cleaning ...
Mine need doing once a year generally - much less than when I was younger and had the dreaded syringe ....
I either get them done in Central London at the Clear Ear Clinic or at an audiologist in Manchester when I visit mum ... Prices seem to range from £55-85 depending on location ...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2016 15:03:31 GMT
Excellent Jules - I'll keep an eye out... my wife keeps saying that I have gone deaf, but then I think all husbands struggle to hear their wives don't they
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Post by dsjr on Nov 5, 2016 15:58:52 GMT
I have good reason not to hear what some are saying
Seriously, look after your ears chaps. Mine weren't so bad after years of ATC thrashing and train journeys back and forth to work in my twenties that took two years to recover from, but when we moved to east Northants, the dank, damp climate played havoc with recurrent ear infections (climate confirmed by the consultant I saw). These kept occurring even after moving to the seaside, and it was T2 Diabetes (with higher blood sugar encouraging bacterial growth apparently) keeping it going. The result now is gummy ears, one in particular, which very occasionally give high frequencies a clear run combined with Tinnitus, which I've kind of tuned out, but it means I can't hear some quiet bird song in the garden, or the cooker's timer bleeping in the kitchen for example.. My ears are very directional for hf reception and for some time until I all but sorted it, the Spendors could either have little top, or piercing sparkle depending on how I orientated my head These days, if my ears are bad, I don't bother listening to any music
P.S. I have some small 'Doc Mods' speakers here in the workroom and their 'monitor' kind of assertiveness and clarity suits my ears very well. They don't screech in the slightest either, unlike other speakers I could mention and are naturally enough balanced I can enjoy radio 3 through them, which was a very pleasant surprise
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2016 17:11:44 GMT
These days, if my ears are bad, I don't bother listening to any music
That thought scares me completely, I'm not sure I'd cope if I had to do without music, hifi yes, music a big No!
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Post by MartinT on Nov 5, 2016 18:53:02 GMT
I think the surface you put the deck on will have a bigger influence than cartridge rolling, at least to start with. Regas can be great on a good surface but have little built-in isolation.
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Post by dsjr on Nov 5, 2016 20:59:42 GMT
In my experience, best thing to put any Rega on is their wall shelf, firmly bolted to a solid wall away from corners if possible. can't remember where I posted it, but do check old Rega decks for tightness of fixing bolts as when they work loose it kills them sonically. Dry oil in the main bearing needs cleaning out and re-charged with some drops of EP80, which is perfect for the brass bearing and steel shaft and ball. The three feet should be just spinnable and not tightly screwed to the plinth and the belt needs regular replacement. Oh, and remove the lid when playing, but I think most of 'us' do this kind of thing anyway.
P.S. After market ceramic balls offered NO sonic advantage to me and it seems they accelerate wear on the bearing shafts acting on them if my P3 Mule is anything to go by.
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Post by pinkie on Nov 6, 2016 7:23:14 GMT
Kevin reminded me yesterday about funk firms BOING feet. He has a set fitted to his sl1210 and commented that he was interested to compare our decks but thought they would be close (although he was also surprised just how bouncy my PT is)
I fitted an RP1 with BOING at the factory and was surprised how much less muddy the deck was. A bit wobbly if you are not used to it. not easy to shut the lid. But apparently real men don't. Only us pink people
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