|
Post by MikeMusic on Dec 30, 2014 8:30:50 GMT
Love those graphics.
Completely new perception with the brain having to do other interpretation.
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Dec 30, 2014 8:33:58 GMT
That 'smalin' chap on YouTube has created a plethora of them. Great for listening and learning.
|
|
|
Post by MikeMusic on Dec 30, 2014 8:51:09 GMT
I shall investigate.
My mind has to work in a different way with those graphics
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Dec 30, 2014 8:54:57 GMT
The Stravinsky Rite of Spring is fun. It'll make your brain crash!
|
|
|
Post by MikeMusic on Dec 30, 2014 9:10:30 GMT
It's like enjoyable homework !
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Dec 30, 2014 9:15:22 GMT
Before we get too far from the point, going back to the Bach that really is an excellent lesson in perception and hearing it differently each time by taking a different voice and following it through. I'm already listening to other music and taking the same approach.
The Bach, though, is gobsmackingly, achingly, perfect.
|
|
|
Post by MikeMusic on Dec 30, 2014 9:19:25 GMT
*Seeing* the music is another dimension for the brain
So we're pretty much on target, slight tangent maybe.
I must listen to The Rite of Spring sound only. Probably never heard it before
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Dec 30, 2014 9:38:11 GMT
It's an awesome piece but requires some acclimatisation.
|
|
|
Post by MikeMusic on Dec 30, 2014 13:16:30 GMT
I 'got' it, like I don't usually get most classical
Wonder if the visuals took me there ........
|
|
jkeny
Rank: Soloist
Posts: 10
|
Post by jkeny on Dec 30, 2014 19:09:52 GMT
Yes, it's interesting to follow the voices especially with a graphic that aids in this. Notice that when we are following a "particular voice" we are aware of the surrounding voices but not focussing on them as we are the "particular voice". Then when we change our focus to another voice it gels as an auditory stream. This is what is predicted by ASA theory - when we pick a particular aspect in the music to focus on, the other signals that correlate with this aspect become recognised as an auditory stream & we follow it as a stream, a voice. The way we correlate these different signals into a coherent stream is what ASA is all about.
As postulated in studies of perception - perception is a continual guessing game based on the moment to moment neurological signals originating from the ear. Because it's a guessing game, the cognitive function quickly degenerates as the number of variables increases. Notice how much easier it is to follow the different voices in the Bach piece when we have a visual graphic aiding us - it takes out some of the variables i.e less guesswork processing.
This, I believe, has implications for blind testing. We have to be careful about considering the full implications of blind tests - they are usually talked about in terms of removal of the sighted element with the implication that this is all that has changed - they seldom look at what are the possible cognitive implications of this. Also as we can only focus on one aspect at a time, to successfully pass a blind test requires identifying a particular aspect of difference between two devices/pieces of music & retaining this focus during the blind test without being confused by other aspects. So in essence, a blind test can be passed if a particular difference can be isolated, at a particular timestamp & this isolated section alone played back. This implies that there is a particular section of two tracks where differences arise - it's much more difficult if the differences are a more diffuse, generalised difference that affects the full track. This applies to device differences where all of the presentation of the music is being affected.
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Dec 30, 2014 19:45:49 GMT
Yes, it's interesting to follow the voices especially with a graphic that aids in this. Notice that when we are following a "particular voice" we are aware of the surrounding voices but not focussing on them as we are the "particular voice". Then when we change our focus to another voice it gels as an auditory stream. I find that interesting when compared with vision. Our eyes can change direction mechanically to look at the new item of interest, then its lens can refocus to capture it more sharply. We have no such comparative mechanism in the ear, it all has to be done in the brain - there is no mechanical change associated with listening to a "particular voice". Could that explain why we have developed such sensitivity to the differentiation and understanding of sounds? Not sensitivity, I know, since most animals can hear more keenly than we do, but perhaps without the spectrum of associations.
|
|
jkeny
Rank: Soloist
Posts: 10
|
Post by jkeny on Dec 30, 2014 20:28:38 GMT
Yes, it's interesting to follow the voices especially with a graphic that aids in this. Notice that when we are following a "particular voice" we are aware of the surrounding voices but not focussing on them as we are the "particular voice". Then when we change our focus to another voice it gels as an auditory stream. I find that interesting when compared with vision. Our eyes can change direction mechanically to look at the new item of interest, then its lens can refocus to capture it more sharply. We have no such comparative mechanism in the ear, it all has to be done in the brain - there is no mechanical change associated with listening to a "particular voice". Could that explain why we have developed such sensitivity to the differentiation and understanding of sounds? Not sensitivity, I know, since most animals can hear more keenly than we do, but perhaps without the spectrum of associations. Slides that compare visual & auditory scene analysis www.mit.edu/~9.00/handouts/5perception2.pdfWhich mentions things like: - Space in vision = frequency X time in audition.
- Object in vision = sound source (noisemaker) in audition.
- Gestalt laws of auditory organization:
[/ul] But despite some similarities you are correct, the auditory perception is much more of a guessing game than the visual perception
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2014 20:49:47 GMT
I love the Rite of Spring. I can imagine that the graphics would encourage those unfamiliar with the piece to sit right through it. I suspect that one of the main problems with 'classical' music is the space involved. Pop and rock tend to be short bursts of intensity. Someone used to that may find it all a bit boring until they switch on to it.
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Dec 31, 2014 5:16:15 GMT
The Rite of Spring is stunning and highly visceral if you acquire a good recording. It's almost the 'punk' of the classical world, with attack and great blocks of sound to stun your senses. No wonder the Parisian audience broke out into a fight at the premiere, they had no chance of taking it all in on the first sitting!
Definitely worth having in your collection.
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Dec 31, 2014 5:21:21 GMT
Slides that compare visual & auditory scene analysis www.mit.edu/~9.00/handouts/5perception2.pdfWhich mentions things like: - Space in vision = frequency X time in audition.
- Object in vision = sound source (noisemaker) in audition.
- Gestalt laws of auditory organization:
[/ul][/quote]Thanks. Those slides clearly need their narrative, but I shall study them over coffee.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2014 8:02:12 GMT
The Rite of Spring is stunning and highly visceral if you acquire a good recording. It's almost the 'punk' of the classical world, with attack and great blocks of sound to stun your senses. No wonder the Parisian audience broke out into a fight at the premiere, they had no chance of taking it all in on the first sitting! Definitely worth having in your collection. I have Karajan with the Berlin Phil and it rocks
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Dec 31, 2014 8:23:17 GMT
I have Rozhdestvensky/LSO, Mackerras/LPO and Bernstein/Israel PO, all worthwhile recordings. Oh, and the aforementioned Karajan/BPO. I'll play them all and give you a verdict.
|
|
|
Post by MikeMusic on Dec 31, 2014 9:09:46 GMT
Thinking on... Classic perception trick is to ask people to focus and concentrate on all the red in the room. Close their eyes Now think of all the blue items
That's obvious
What isn't obvious is what we already have going on in our heads that has us thinking red and missing blue...
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Dec 31, 2014 9:31:57 GMT
Stravinsky findings taken here to preserve the thread.
|
|
|
Post by Clive on Dec 31, 2014 12:55:57 GMT
The graphics bring so much to the music, I'd love to have a screen between the speakers running the grahics in real time. It's a bit Star Trek or is it Independence Day? Maybe I need to learn to read music!
|
|