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Post by John on Jul 11, 2014 17:22:29 GMT
Yes the Blue ray player has a lot simpler operating system I also found with this approach their was no difference in SQ between the Oppo 103 using this method and the cheapest Sony Blue Ray player so very cost effective
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Post by MartinT on Jul 11, 2014 17:26:27 GMT
I've avoided Homeplugs as I do everything I can to clean my mains power, not make it dirtier!
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Post by John on Jul 11, 2014 17:33:47 GMT
With the Oppo I was using the lead I brought over to yours awhile back and still could not hear any difference between the 2 players I tried a whole bunch of battery devices that took WAV and outputted via SODIF coaxial and could not improve on the blue ray player
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Post by Pinch on Jul 11, 2014 17:37:12 GMT
Ah. I experimented with JPlay a couple of years ago, but didn't find it offered any discernible improvement over plain vanilla JRiver, but the set-up that I had then was a little less refined than at present, so perhaps any difference would be more salient now. MQn loses out for me on the convenience front - I'm too enamoured with being able to control everything via JRemote - although I think it's a great project. But the 'optimizer' could well be the next thing to experiment with. If you've not tried it yet, the recent version of Fidelizer - 5, I think - has so far been the most effective OS tweak that I've used (much more so than its previous versions). Interestingly, its author advises against using memory playback, for reasons which I don't understand, but all to the end of achieving better results. In any case, I disabled it in JRiver, since Fidelizer is designed with standard playback in mind. Anyway, rambling.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 17:39:50 GMT
The trick is reduce as much as the pc generated noise as possible, improve data transfer both inside and outside the pc transport, then it starts to get listenable (imho)
It took a good three years of developing the studio pc based equipment to get close to a respectable £5K cdp, now I can attain equal performance with red book as my previous transport.
Has taken a lot of time and effort.
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Post by John on Jul 11, 2014 17:40:26 GMT
Yes MQn a very minimal player not for everyone
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Post by Pinch on Jul 11, 2014 17:50:10 GMT
It took a good three years of developing the studio pc based equipment to get close to a respectable £5K cdp, now I can attain equal performance with red book as my previous transport. Has taken a lot of time and effort. I'm guessing I probably have much lower standards - I don't think I've ever listened to a 5K CD player! But, FWIW, I also found that it took a lot of time and effort to get a sound that I was happy with out of the computer (in my case, one that could match, in the respects that are important to me, even a basic turntable). And, as you say, the key things were reducing noise, and improving data-transfer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 18:13:30 GMT
Hi Pinch
A lot of this is common sense, some of the hardware configuration requires a lot more thought and patience (plus countless reboots lol) and looking at how the software physically uses the computer.
What is required is a ultra low noise and power ( running 3.3Vdc or ideally 1.8Vdc though heat dissipation maybe a slight issue until nano tube tech is made commercially available at sensible money) PC based server /stripped back OS with a usable interface, very robust too. Dedicated signal transmission (preferable not usb) Smarter memory units with ultra low current quiescence and greater capacity and a smaller footprint our music files do eat up the 32 Gb ram pretty readily :-(
Anyway most people do not wish to have such hassles, they just wish to push a button and listen to music lol
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Post by gazjam on Jul 11, 2014 21:31:32 GMT
Just saw this thread. My £0.02 worth. Agree with the Server 2012/Audio Optimizer route. Its absolutely worth it. Spent a long time tweaking Windows 7 and 8, down to registry/script level, and Server 2012 beats them for quality - straight out the packet. With the Optimizer running in core mode its even better - a lot better. Further tweaks and improvements can be done if you dig deep enough. In my own setup the combination of Server 2012 stripped down by Optimizer, running Jriver/Jplay is the best software setup I've heard. There's registry changes for Jriver and Jplay that can improve things as well. There's maybe 11 services running in the background now, try that with Windows 8! In a way software can be just as important if not more than hardware , though getting that right makes a big difference too. Particularly in power supplies, I've found. Linear all the way.
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Post by Tim on Jul 11, 2014 22:07:50 GMT
Wot he said
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steve
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Post by steve on Jul 12, 2014 9:11:31 GMT
I use a 2012 Mac Mini unmodified ie it works via its own built in SMPS. It is connected via HDMI to a 32 inch telly, and to the internet I use iTunes as file manager. I import my CDs with iTunes as AIFF. I'll be perfectly honest and say that the majority of the music I listen to is 256K AAC iTunes downloads. Data leaves via the toslink output into a Musical Fidelity M1 DAC.
I've blown my street cred completely with the above statement and am therefore in no position to comment on sound quality in any way shape or form.
But is sounds alright to me Can't be arsed with hi-rez.
One of these days, I'll get myself a proper PC based server.
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Post by John on Jul 12, 2014 10:00:23 GMT
If you happy with it Steve then I do not see the issue I given up on street cred years ago
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Post by MikeMusic on Jul 12, 2014 10:10:56 GMT
regarding the connection business, I've been using homeplugs on my set up since 2006 and havn't had 1 single glitch. I tried wifi very briefly to test a laptop server system and this kept buffering. I admit I didn't spend much time fiddling with it but I think I got it improved but not perfect.. 1 vote for the wired/homeplug route. It did occur to me that homeplugs might not work for those that have mains conditioning, anybody got any experience of this? Think they put all sorts of crap into the mains. You remind me I want to try turning all the interweb stuff off one day, maybe tomorrow, and see if I can hear any difference. The router and wiring is in the next room, far wall though
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Post by MikeMusic on Jul 12, 2014 10:16:39 GMT
I've blown my street cred completely with the above statement and am therefore in no position to comment on sound quality in any way shape or form. But is sounds alright to me Who cares about street cred ! One thing that usually surprises me with upgrades. We do the test on the kit before It sounds great ! 2nd test Ooer it sounds greater, sometimes "I can't understand what is happening there is so much more coming out" greater. And the new stuff stays......
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Post by John on Jul 12, 2014 10:20:51 GMT
I been guilty of that a few times
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 11:24:37 GMT
regarding the connection business, I've been using homeplugs on my set up since 2006 and havn't had 1 single glitch. I tried wifi very briefly to test a laptop server system and this kept buffering. I admit I didn't spend much time fiddling with it but I think I got it improved but not perfect.. 1 vote for the wired/homeplug route. It did occur to me that homeplugs might not work for those that have mains conditioning, anybody got any experience of this? Think they put all sorts of crap into the mains. I'm sure they do(put something on the mains) otherwise they couldn't communicate. I'm curious as to whether the conditioners/filters/regenerators can remove the homeplug signal. If they can then homeplugs should be ok to use in conjunction without affecting sq, shouldn't they?. I have a 'triple' filter on the equipment in the studio set up, but I've never thought about what it does or how it does what it does. I suppose I should try a homeplug connectionj through the filter to see what happens. I have to confess I've never consciously heard any interference from the homeplug, or mains dirt for that matter. But then I'm more interested in changing circuits or or power supplies or amplifying devices if I detect a problem.... there are blessings for old ears
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Post by gazjam on Jul 12, 2014 11:53:00 GMT
Even a linear PSU for your router can make an improvement... not so much making the router sound better (aye right!) but stopping the switcher putting crap back into the mains.
Previously had isolated all switchers in my setup by plugging into a Belkin PF30, improved things but not as much as getting the SMPUs out the way all together.
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Post by MikeMusic on Jul 12, 2014 12:24:30 GMT
Think they put all sorts of crap into the mains. I'm sure they do(put something on the mains) otherwise they couldn't communicate. I'm curious as to whether the conditioners/filters/regenerators can remove the homeplug signal. If they can then homeplugs should be ok to use in conjunction without affecting sq, shouldn't they?. I have a 'triple' filter on the equipment in the studio set up, but I've never thought about what it does or how it does what it does. I suppose I should try a homeplug connectionj through the filter to see what happens. I have to confess I've never consciously heard any interference from the homeplug, or mains dirt for that matter. But then I'm more interested in changing circuits or or power supplies or amplifying devices if I detect a problem.... there are blessings for old ears How about a test with them all off, and hear the difference - or not ! My upgrade path started with mains and it made a hell of a difference. Bank of unswitched sockets, improved earth, mains leads, total house refurb (not just for the hfifi !), regenerators. Last was shifting kit around to the clean, front end rack and the dirty rack, regenerator and PSUs All made a nice difference
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Post by MikeMusic on Jul 12, 2014 12:26:11 GMT
Even a linear PSU for your router can make an improvement... not so much making the router sound better (aye right!) but stopping the switcher putting crap back into the mains. Previously had isolated all switchers in my setup by plugging into a Belkin PF30, improved things but not as much as getting the SMPUs out the way all together. Can we assume the router PSU is currently not linear ? Different circuit to the hifi
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Post by terrybooth on Jul 12, 2014 14:06:43 GMT
I thought this thread was about source? Or is mains now the source. Try plugging your speakers into it to find out. You may get a low G#, but not for long. I've used Windows 7 as a music playing OS for some time. I tried Windows 8 briefly on a laptop (JRiver USB -> Dac) and it was worse, but I think that was mostly down to the laptop rather than the OS. I've used Linux (Ubuntu) on the music PC and tried other Linuxes. I bracket stock Linux with stock Mac OSX when it comes to sound - it's good but I find it a little too much on the soft and veiled side (could be my ancient ears of course). Taking a general purpose closed-source OS and trying to hack it to produce good sound I feel is probably a less fruitful route than starting with an open source OS. I've an inclination towards minimalism and had for some time been wondering whether the Raspberry Pi could be the basis of a decent Digital Music player. Then I stumbled upon Volumio and i2S and the Pi Dac boards. You get a music player which costs just a little more than a Window 8 license, about one eigth of a Windows Server 2012 license, which IMHO sets a baseline for digital music reproduction.
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