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Post by ChrisB on Oct 12, 2014 23:47:24 GMT
I've owned a G99 for a couple of years now..... It came to me from a forum friend, in lovely condition and with a Decca arm and cartridge, mounted in a home made plinth constructed from thin ply veneered with mahogany. The plinth is very nicely made (I still have it) but wasn't really doing justice to the deck.
I set about making something that might do the job better. First try was a stacked ply affair in order to see if the deck could deliver anything like the potential that's attributed to it in some quarters. Results were great and I used the deck in a more finished version of this plinth alongside my trusty Gyrodec for a while with great success. I've owned a Zeta arm for a lot of years (since 1990) and it occurred to me that the G99 might just be capable of greatness if I were to put the two together. Recently, I came into possession of a second Zeta, a find which has galvanised me into getting a proper, final plinth built for the deck. Icing on the cake is that I own a second Koetsu Black which can be pressed into service, so mirroring the arm/cartridge combination on the Gyro. The motor unit is away for a fitting at the moment but I'll keep this thread updated with developments. In the meantime, perhaps I'll fill you in on the background and history of the Goldring and Lenco family of turntables.
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Post by MartinT on Oct 13, 2014 2:08:53 GMT
Would you say, Chris, that there is more performance potential in the G99 than the GL7x series? I don't really understand their relative merit.
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Post by canetoad on Oct 13, 2014 2:18:52 GMT
Looking forward to hearing more about this Chris.
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Post by John on Oct 13, 2014 4:28:11 GMT
Looking forward to seeing how the deck develops I think the G99 has loads of potential What the condition like inside the Lenco I presume the bearing and Idler are both in good nick but worth investigating just in case
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Post by John on Oct 13, 2014 4:31:56 GMT
Would you say, Chris, that there is more performance potential in the G99 than the GL7x series? I don't really understand their relative merit. Both have lots of potential. Having the arm away from the chassis will help with isolating the arm. The Zeta should work really on the this
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Post by ChrisB on Oct 13, 2014 6:33:06 GMT
I'll put up some photos when the chassis comes back Martin, but received wisdom is that the 88 and 99 are better in several ways. Goldring made some of the parts themselves and there are also some fundamental design differences. More effort went into the platter balancing, the chassis is also a good bit stiffer than the standard item. The 75 has a brake which has a rattly linkage - most owners remove this ahd chuck it away, I think.
The bearing was given a service when I took possession of the deck, John and it seems very quiet indeed now. However, I intend to change or modify it in due course. The idler wheel was replaced from the much maligned plastic one to a good, used metal version.
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Post by Paul Barker on Oct 13, 2014 7:01:13 GMT
I am no expert but have had a 75 and do have a 99, and a Garrard 301 is what I use.
My assessment is the 99 is esthetically better than the 75 but mechanically insignificant in the sense of motor and bearing are the same.
Lenco motors appear to be as good as or superior to the Garrard motors. But the Garrard bearing and platter seem to be to be superior to the Lenco.
I think if you redesign the bearing, in particular make it longer as is the Garrard.
Obviously masses of very expensive modifications available on the tinterweb, many with fancy Far Eastern names. Masses of folk offering "services" which like all servicing is entirely dependent on the honesty of the individual. (I service things mechanical and when I turn up I have a lot of hard work to do to make up for the fact that the last 5 "services" the guy must have waved a stick at it and gone! Householder clueless to the fact nothing worthwhile was done previously and can't really understand what I am doing and why. they are entirely at the mercy of the honesty of the operative. It is the same in the world of hifi where snake oil is so valuable.
I like slate for a plinth.
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Post by ChrisB on Oct 13, 2014 7:44:26 GMT
The deck originally came from a friend of Barry (member here) and Barry spent a little time with it before it landed in my grubby hands. Here's what he said about it:
Before I started the bearing service, I took my own measurements and I assessed that the start up time (to 33rpm) was indeed within one revolution of the platter according to the built in strobe. I measured a slightly better run down time of 1 minute and 10 seconds from 33 rpm to a total stop. So, then I carried out the main bearing service which took perhaps a couple of hours. I used the famous 'Joel's Kit', which includes pre-charged syringes with bearing oil, motor oil, cleaning fluid, Loctite, a plastic bearing end cap, a new ball bearing & thrust plate as well as a nylatron thrust plate for the motor, all for £17. Joel is from Friesenheim in Germany and trades on Ebay under the name service-td.Astonishingly, when I checked the run down time, I found that it had increased by almost exactly 300%!! Once the work had been completed, it took 3 minutes and 32 seconds to come to a total standstill. The cleaning and lubrication of the motor followed - no big problems here at all. How about another gratuitous photo, just for fun....
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Post by ChrisB on Oct 13, 2014 20:19:05 GMT
What's so different about these Goldring/Lenco thingies then?
The idler drive system is the thing that sets these decks apart from belt and direct drive turntables but the Lenco system uses an interesting method of delivering the goods. The motor spindle is tapered and mounted horizontally under the chassis and rotates at approximately 1,400 rpm. The idler wheel is mounted vertically (at 90 deg. to, but not touching the spindle) on the end of an arm and when the motor is engaged it is pulled by a spring mechanism until it engages with the spinning spindle. The direction of rotation causes the wheel to ride up on the inertia of the spindle and, in turn engage on the underside of the platter. At this point, the wheel becomes effectively jammed between the spindle and platter, so transferring the rotation to the platter. When the wheel is engaged on both the spindle and the platter, the spring mechanism ceases to act upon the wheel assembly.
The video below shows the action of the mechanism quite nicely, though obviously the platter has been removed in order to show this:
Now then, you might ask, why is the spindle tapered? It's designed that way in order to provide a variable speed function. When you change speed, what you actually do is to move the position of the wheel in relation to the spindle: up or down the taper. This causes the idler wheel to rotate at a different speed and the constantly changing diameter of the spindle means you can adjust the speed in infinitely small increments from 30 and 80 rpm and then stepped to cater for the speeds between 15 to 18 rpm. There are 4 adjustable preset speeds and the G99 has a built in strobe lamp and the rim edge of the platter is marked for the speeds. The related decks don't have this facility. The platter is very heavy at 3.7kg and the mass is concentrated both in the centre for stiffness and around the rim in order to give inertia, however, a lot of it is buried below the surface of the chassis which makes it look a lot more svelte than it really is. When the Lenco system was first released there were comments that it couldn't be as good as other idler drive decks because of the point contact of the knife edged rubber rim on the wheel. Later, the penny dropped when it was realised that there is a very good reason for the knife edge - a wide, flat tyre acting upon a taper will engage all across it's width and therefore will effectively be trying to rotate at several different speeds! This can only result in poorer sound quality through slippage and excessive wear.
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Post by MartinT on Oct 13, 2014 20:51:35 GMT
Nice mech, that!
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Post by ChrisB on Oct 13, 2014 20:59:14 GMT
It's the Daf Variomatic of the hi-fi world!
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Post by John on Oct 13, 2014 21:04:22 GMT
Really enjoying the write up
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Post by ChrisB on Oct 13, 2014 22:17:25 GMT
My G99 has a manufacturing date stamp of 1965, which makes it an early one - its predecessor, the G88 was made between 1962 and 1965. '65 was a good year - my deck is the same age as me! Its price back then was £21 19s 9d
Goldring's sales blurb of the time went like this:
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Post by MartinT on Oct 14, 2014 6:01:23 GMT
Its price back then was £21 19s 9d Amazing that they priced down to the penny!
Also that the cabinet was almost as expensive again.
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Post by ChrisB on Oct 14, 2014 6:19:34 GMT
Yes it's a lot different to the 'everything ends in a 9' policy of modern pricing! An inflation calculator makes that price only 370 odd quid at today's prices.
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Post by MikeMusic on Oct 14, 2014 7:54:54 GMT
That's how it used to be of course I'd forgotten
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Post by pre65 on Oct 14, 2014 10:36:44 GMT
Some years ago I had a standard Lenco GL75, a GL75 with modified baseplate (see photo) and a Goldring 99.
I sold all three to get a Garrard 401.
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Post by Paul Barker on Oct 14, 2014 15:56:38 GMT
Can't argue with that decision. Much about the Lenco shows great potential, but a lot easier to just buy the Garrard than reinvent the wheel. Though with a longer bearing and a decent platter the Lenco might see the Garrard off. Is it worth it? If you have the time? probably.
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Post by ChrisB on Oct 14, 2014 17:31:29 GMT
Why would you want to make a Lenco sound like a Garrard?! They both have their place, I think. As we all know, there are very few definitives in this game and, right enough, some of us have also heard both and prefer the Lenco!
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Post by John on Oct 14, 2014 17:57:43 GMT
Both are great Turntables and capable of very high performance
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