|
Post by karatestu on Jan 21, 2020 7:05:58 GMT
I don't do any streaming or digital file play back of any kind. Cd and vinyl only for me. Oh i forgot, i do stream youtube to watch but it's not through the hifi. I have never had much interest mainly because it scares me and i have very little IT knowledge and experience. Any problems here then i shout for my wife and if shecan't work it out then we call a friend who maintains the IT systems in local primary schools.
A very sad situation i think you will agree. Despite my reluctance i often read the related threads on forums hoping that one day it will all sink in and i might give it a go. Well several years have passed and i am still no closer. I am old fashioned and from an agricultural background so if i can't hit it with a large hammer or tie it up with baler twine to get it to work then job's fooked.
I know how a cdp works and read all this stuff about noise in digital file based playback systems. USB, power supply noise, reclocking, jitterbusters etc etc. It's not a problem in my cdp. The I2s digital signal travels a couple of centimetres from the decoder to the dac with no reclocking, no usb convertor chips and the like, no cables to fanny about with. It's quite liberating. Why can't the same thing be done with file based systems ?
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Jan 21, 2020 7:45:25 GMT
If you're a kinaesthetic learner, you will only understand and grow your skills by doing it, rather than just reading about it. Buy a cheap Pi kit and build yourself a streamer. You will learn a hell of a lot about it and be less fearful of not being able to maintain it. It's inexpensive and great fun.
The simple reality is that some of us with our power supplies, reclockers and noise treatments have gone way, way beyond the sound quality capabilities of a decent CD player. The only reason I sold my Ayre C-5xe MP SACD player, once a Stereophile A+ component, is that my Pi-based streamer had overtaken it quite some time ago and it couldn't even dream of keeping up with the Asus I am now running.
|
|
|
Post by John on Jan 21, 2020 8:43:51 GMT
If I was dipping my toes in this I try something like the Volumio Primo volumio.org/product/volumio-primo/It has a built in DAC and not worry about jitter busters, reclockers etc. As Martin says for those of us that have gone down that route it is just a desire to push the realism further I think you be surprised how easy it all is. I was scared moving to the pi. My computer skills are basic I see coding as a foreign language. But the reality is even I have no issues It's a really cost effective way to opening up how much music you listen to and I guess that is the reason why I enjoy it so much
|
|
|
Post by jandl100 on Jan 21, 2020 8:49:55 GMT
I just have a USB cable going from my laptop to my DAC. Sorted, no hassle and it sounds great.
You can add all sorts of widgets later to make it even better.
|
|
|
Post by ChrisB on Jan 21, 2020 8:51:11 GMT
Stu, building a pi machine really is extremely simple. I like to tell people that, as a ham fisted digital idiot, I had my first one playing music within half an hour of opening the packaging. And that includes downloading the software.
Go for it!
|
|
|
Post by karatestu on Jan 21, 2020 9:11:56 GMT
Thanks for your replies and advice. I don't think i am kinaesthetic as i don't meet the criteria Don't take this the wrong way but until i have surpassed the level of replay from my VERY modified cdp by trying streaming for myself, i cannot accept that it is better. I know, fuzzy logic but it's the way i work. I have a love affair with my cdp as i have done all sorts to it and taken it in a sonic direction that i hugely prefer over what it was or any other cdp i have heard. I don't like things that i can't modify. Things are engineered to a price and i want to be able to improve things to my own taste often by doing things which make the unit not compatible with any other systems. That's the way my system largely is as large compromises are usually made to make products compatible with any situation they are likely to be used. I don't feel that is achievable with streamers. I may be wrong. I know enough electronic knowledge and have quite a lot of experience of building power supplies, modifying everything i own. Also i aim for the best sound achievable. I see no sense in jumping blind in to the low end of the market where performance is curtailed. I might as well get something that is capable of the best sonic reproduction even if i have to build half a dozen linear power supplies for it . No disrespect to anyone but i don't want to be continually swapping out cables, dac's, pi's, tinker boards. Simplicity is surely the key to all this ? Several illogical dilemma's rolled up in to one large one
|
|
|
Post by John on Jan 21, 2020 9:39:12 GMT
To be honest I think you making a few assumptions Just because it low cost the Tinkerboard is not low fi. I suggest just trying out a basic approach of a Tinkerboard a decent case and reasonable usb cable into a DAC might surprise you. I am sure you build a decent power supply and find your own solutions to modifications Do you have someone where you live that could show you how they us a pi or a Tinkerboard in your area for you to get a sense of how it performs
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Jan 21, 2020 9:47:14 GMT
Just to break one misconception: the SOC (System on a Chip) used inside even major brand streamers is relatively low power, considerably lower in power than the ARM processor inside the Asus Tinker Board S. From a processing power point of view, there is nothing 'low end' about the Asus.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2020 9:51:49 GMT
I would agree with John on this. From what you have said in your post, you're assuming that streamers will sound worse. How do you know? have you tried any?
The Pi is a great piece of kit to start you on the streaming bandwagon. It is also exceptionally easy to modify them, so would suit your desire to improve sound quality output.
No doubt any streamer that you 'buy off the shelf' will be limited as you say by a cost that the brand was willing to build it to, but that doesn't stop you from upgrading it.
The biggest learning point I have got from the hifi world over the years is that just because it costs more, doesn't always making it better.
|
|
|
Post by Pinch on Jan 21, 2020 10:03:52 GMT
Since you're starting from nothing, I'd actually recommend a simpler route. Does your DAC have a USB input? If so, do as Jerry mentioned and simply connect a PC or a laptop to your DAC via USB. Download a free music player like Foobar ( link) onto your machine, use it to rip a couple of CDs so you have some files (guide here), and then play the files, and see what you think. There are countless ways in which you'd be able to improve on this very basic set-up (software tweaks, hardware changes, more software tweaks, more hardware changes, etc), but I'd recommend just taking the simplest route first, if only as an experiment and to give you a feel for the territory.
|
|
|
Post by John on Jan 21, 2020 10:06:08 GMT
Yes using a pc will give you a sense of what can be done Just remember a pc is a lot more noisy internally But I know a few members achieve good sounds this way
|
|
|
Post by karatestu on Jan 21, 2020 10:25:53 GMT
Thanks again I wasn't asserting that the tinker or Pi are "low end" or anything like that From my posts you will ascertain that i know very little about the subject. I don't have a stand alone DAC of any kind . Only the one in my cdp and that doesn't have any digital in (or out) capability. If i can get to the lofty heights that you guys seem to be at with a tinker board then i would go with that for sure. Ripping Cd's to FLAC would be the place to start i agree and i would need somewhere to store the files. The Volumio product that John kindly linked to looks interesting. It has a tinkerboard and dac on board. The "hifi" version also has a cd drive for ripping . What are it's compromises and limitations though ?
|
|
|
Post by Pinch on Jan 21, 2020 10:29:48 GMT
What are it's compromises and limitations though ? The main one would be the PSU and supply arrangements, but it sounds like you'd be able to sort that out yourself!
|
|
|
Post by karatestu on Jan 21, 2020 10:49:20 GMT
What are it's compromises and limitations though ? The main one would be the PSU and supply arrangements, but it sounds like you'd be able to sort that out yourself! Within reason Looking at the amount of surface mount technology inside it would make it more difficult to trace the power supply circuit and change / add more dedicated psu's and regulators. 5V supplies are no problem. It's the 3 Amp bit that is the tricky bit. I take it only one psu is used with this unit so everything in there shares it ? If so i cansee that as very limiting. The dac would be the obvious bit to separate out. The dac in my cdp only pulls about 60 mA tops which are on three different supply pins. If it is similar then a dac psu would not have to be huge and could use some nice low noise, low power regulators. Everything i modify seems to breed psu's like rabbits That is easy with through hole stuff i have built and modified to date. I have some surface mount experience but not loads.
|
|
|
Post by John on Jan 21, 2020 10:56:20 GMT
Agree the DAC might be better if separate
|
|
|
Post by Slinger on Jan 21, 2020 13:59:47 GMT
As people have said, putting the thing together is depressingly easy for those of us who actually like to "get our hands dirty." My background is as a BT engineer and from there I moved into I.T. and the main reason I resisted the Pi route for so long was that I really couldn't be arsed "working" to get some music out of a silly little box. Finally did the deed, and as I said, depressingly easy. I even found something "complicated" I could do with the files that the Pi uses to configure its bits and bobs, and it made a significant difference; throttling back internal speeds, shutting off the parts of the Pi that are used for video, etc. Asus Tinker Board: Even easier. No software configuration needed. The hardest part is putting those fiddly little cases together. Digital cables make a difference to sound quality. A decent power supply makes a difference to sound quality. A couple of us actually run Tinker Boards using power-banks. There you go, Stu. Everything you need to know about making up a streamer. Of course, you then need loads of files for your file-server to errr... serve? And something to store the files on, like a NAS or an external USB hard drive. And a connection to your network (wired is better than wireless if you can manage it) so you can use whatever interface you choose via your PC, or tablet, and... OK, it's not THAT simple, but taken as individual tasks each step in itself is pretty easy. Honest.
|
|
|
Post by karatestu on Jan 22, 2020 6:01:35 GMT
Thanks Paul. You have a way of putting my mind at rest.. It must be so annoying when people like me repeatedly come along and you have to repeat the "stop worrying it will be fine"
|
|
|
Post by brettj on Jan 22, 2020 6:51:20 GMT
Although they say it is easy, I don't understand how a Pi setup works.
So, I did buy a RWAK100s (modified AK100) with toslink out. Also have an old Macbook Pro, which also has toslink out. Was thinking of using either of those to a Dac.
But settled on using USB on the Macbook Pro with a Halide Bridge, iFi USB silencer, Audioquest Jitterbug to my Dac. That is sounding much better than anything I've had previously.
|
|
|
Post by Slinger on Jan 22, 2020 13:50:39 GMT
...It must be so annoying when people like me repeatedly come along and you have to repeat the "stop worrying it will be fine" Not at all, Stu. People were saying stuff like that to me not so long ago, so I'm just paying it forward, mate. It's what forums are for, innit?
|
|