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Post by MartinT on Jan 16, 2020 15:51:53 GMT
Hope they're as good as the MeiCord has been for me, Paul.
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Post by Slinger on Jan 16, 2020 16:04:19 GMT
I'm not going to leap to judgement, but after playing some of the Yello album I listened to yesterday I can say that they're definitely not a backward step.
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Post by julesd68 on Jan 16, 2020 16:39:06 GMT
That's always a good start LOL.
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Post by julesd68 on Jan 19, 2020 19:57:01 GMT
Have you had a chance to listen any further with these cables Paul?
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Post by Slinger on Jan 19, 2020 20:16:08 GMT
Have you had a chance to listen any further with these cables Paul? Yes, Jules, not much, but some. I *think* I'm getting more clarity, or more air, however one is supposed to describe these things.
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Post by Slinger on Jan 19, 2020 21:20:16 GMT
I'm on my second Jackie Leven album of the evening, and I'm tempted to say it's the best I've heard them on this system.
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Post by digitaldufferme on Jan 21, 2020 1:09:02 GMT
I got a Limetree Network Bridge but it is currently in Germany having the Bluetooth being repaired Hi John, Would you say your Tinkerboard streamer is now out performing your Limetree? If so could you itemise your costs for the build which has achieved this? I was considering the Limetree but hesitated because it auto upsamples and this Tinkerboard approach sounds both economical and lower risk as the secondhand market to sell gear like the Limetree would be very poor where I live.
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Post by John on Jan 21, 2020 5:59:39 GMT
Yes with enough mods you can get the Tinkerboard to outperform the Limetree. But the Limetree is very capable. The Bluetooth issue was probably more due to using BT I think you need to deal with some of the stray noise that ends back up in the audio chain I found two approaches that work a) Adding a few USB Jitter reducing devices. I prefer the IFi USB silencer but all of them work well. Up to £70 each, depending on which manufacturer you go for. b) Using a grounding box. Do not mix match between the two approaches I think the grounding box works better but is more expensive. The other bit that really helps elevate is using a master clock I use the Oehilbach XXL Master clock £180 Decent USB cables also help here I started off with Juicy bits that are cheap but now use better cables. Some people on the forum are using a Chinese cable that cost about £20 each. You will need 2 Make sure you get the right Tinkerboard I managed to get a second hand one for less than half price that was never used. Let us know what you go for and how you get on. The Tinkerboard is very easy to build
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Post by MartinT on Jan 21, 2020 6:42:34 GMT
I'll second that - the Tinker Board S makes a very capable streamer with your flavour of software (Volumio for me). You'll need a decent 5V linear/supercap power supply, some method of reducing ground plane noise (I'm using a Black Ravioli eflos grounding box) and some decent USB cables (Audioquest Carbon here). The outcome is a streamer capable of resolving to a very high degree hi-res streams from the likes of Qobuz and your local files.
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Post by Slinger on Jan 21, 2020 14:12:23 GMT
I'm also using an AQ Carbon, and I've incorporated a Schiit Wyrd and an Oehilbach XXL Master Clock into my setup connected via WireWorld Starlight 7 cables. A reasonable alternative to a LPSU or a supercap power supply is a power bank. You should be able to pick up AQ Jitterbugs on eBay for around £35-£40.
BIG point, you need a Tinkerboard S. The "S" is very important.
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Post by digitaldufferme on Jan 21, 2020 21:18:30 GMT
Thank you all for the advice, it does sound like a very interesting and possibly more economical streaming approach without compromising on signal quality. The signal quality is very important to me as I feel I will have wasted my spending on careful matching of my Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum2/LS50/dual REL T9i (and likely purchase of the Yggdrasil when it is equipped with Unison) if I provide a compromised signal. I'd rather spend more for a better guaranteed streaming signal device than have to dispose of the components of a "roll your own" streaming system.
I notice that in the thread summary, the master clock is not mentioned but all 3 uses feel this is obligatory for a quality result. I've read from Mike Moffat of Schitt who is a well respected DAC designer, that upstream clocks are less important than the clock in a properly designed DAC as it is the closest to the conversion location. I've also read that master clocks make more sense in sound studios to sync many disparate devices but have less (any) benefit in a home setup. I'm very curious whether you feel it should be part of the "obligatory" items in the chain in order to rival a device like the Limetree and should therefore be part of the thread summary and why?
Thank you all, I do enjoy the relaxed, fun approach you take on this forum as opposed to the sometimes rather rabid attitude on alternatives. Horses for courses and all but this hobby is supposed to be fun right?
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Post by MartinT on Jan 21, 2020 22:09:54 GMT
To answer the issue of the dual clocks. I had my LKS DAC (the new top end one with dual ES9038 chips), already fitted with a decent Crystek femtoclock, installed with a replacement ultra low phase Coherent clock module. Sound quality went significantly up as did detail retrieval, harshness went down. I then put the Asus streamer through a Mutec MC-3 reclocker in order to feed the LKS with the most accurate clock-stable signal possible. Common sense would suggest that it was completely superfluous. The outcome was another equally large step up in sound quality, dramatically opening up the soundstage and giving liquid flow to the music.
Which one was better? They both do different things but together they give me the best detail retrieval, deepest soundstage, most gobsmacking dynamic impact and room-shaking bass extension. For me, both are important.
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Post by MartinT on Jan 21, 2020 22:12:11 GMT
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Post by digitaldufferme on Jan 22, 2020 2:09:29 GMT
Thats really interesting Martin, especially the effect of a wider soundstage by the addition of a Mutec MC-3 reclocker downstream of the streamer. Is there a difference between the Oehilbach XXL Master Clock vs the Mutec in terms of soundstage? I wonder whether this increased soundstage is as a result of the chain or the reclocker itself. My interest in this specific aspect is because I struggle to get the soundstage beyond my speakers. I've tried various speaker positions without much luck and to my (limited) knowledge of the Yggy, it's one weakness is soundstage. I've read that such reclockers might have marginal improvement in detail or positioning but this is the first I've heard about the soundstage expansion. Is this also experienced by other forum members Slinger and John? re the forum, I very rarely ever post on other platforms but really enjoy the feeling of having a good chat and sharing experiences in the hobby. It's really hard to do home auditions here in Singapore and as well many brands are not represented nor will they ship and to cap it all, there's not much of a 2nd hand market and what there is, seems to be populated by silly b#%%ers trying it on to get something for nothing hahaha. Being able to profit from members' experiments is invaluable.
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Post by John on Jan 22, 2020 4:34:04 GMT
I imagine the Mutec will be better as it has a better clock. For me, it helps with soundstage, depth, and detail as Martin says the music is more flowing so it is doing a similar job I still think good to have clean power to the Tinkerboard and deal with the internal EMI/RFI bourne noise in the Tinkerboard and DAC. The more you deal with this the more realistic everything becomes But doing this we really are talking about a different level of playback
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Post by digitaldufferme on Jan 22, 2020 7:38:35 GMT
So if you didn't have any bits and pieces lying around and were looking to do this from scratch would this be the complete parts list?
1) Tinkerboard S 2) Case for Tinkerboard S 3) Mutec MC3 Reclocker 4) Black Ravioli eflos grounding box 5) Power supply (recommendations?) 5) Blue Jeans or Monoprice cables or similar
Is this the best approach to this solution? I appreciate your patience and help so I can cost the whole lot out including shipping and decide whether it's worth doing or buying a Limetree or Allo USBridge or secondhand streamer. Another idea might be to see what streamer option is available in the ChiFi area since that's more in my neck of the woods and would help with shipping costs.
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Post by John on Jan 22, 2020 7:55:32 GMT
Yes, you could add a grounding box at a later stage as quite expensive.
So I think a few ways of doing this Cost-effective but still outperforming the Limetree Tinkerboad s with a case Oehilbach XXL Master Clock Powe supply try a mobile phone charger that can do 3 amps Good quality USB cables of your choice Add a few jitter reducing devices to the Tinkerboard S
The way you suggested will certainly sound better but quite expensive
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Post by digitaldufferme on Jan 22, 2020 8:12:33 GMT
Thanks John, so a dirty power supply like a phone SMPS is OK? I have no experience of jitter reducing devices, what is recommended and how many? I'm trying to build my end game system so the question is: is the way I suggested much better than the Limetree (a reference I have tried in my system) or are we talking subtle shades of gray?
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Post by julesd68 on Jan 22, 2020 8:42:40 GMT
A power bank or battery is a huge improvement over a smps with the Tinker S.
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Post by MartinT on Jan 22, 2020 8:54:06 GMT
The decision between Oehlbach and Mutec reclockers is partly down to your DAC's strengths. If it has an excellent USB stage, then go for the Oehlbach. If it has a very good AES or co-ax S/PDIF stage, then choose the Mutec.
The SMPS power supply is a no-no. The Asus deserves a supercap or linear or powerbank power supply and needs at least 5V 2.5A otherwise it won't boot up.
Good USB cables are vital, too. Don't use a cheapy freebie, use something of the quality of an Audioquest Cinnamon or better.
Jitter reduction or grounding box can come later. Don't use both together.
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