|
|
Post by MartinT on Mar 18, 2019 9:04:50 GMT
My recent system changes have led me to revisiting the detail versus liquidity/flow debate. Which is better, or is it all personal preference? Is there a point where detail/dynamics go over the edge towards brightness/relentlessness and spoil the enjoyment? Conversely, can musical liquidity go too far towards pipe-and-slippers dullness?
Where do you stand on the scale and how successful have you been in tuning your system in that direction?
|
|
|
|
Post by Pinch on Mar 18, 2019 9:42:38 GMT
Could you say more on what you mean by "liquidity" and "flow"? I see these terms popping up but I'm never sure I understand what the characteristic is that they're describing.
|
|
|
|
Post by Stratmangler on Mar 18, 2019 10:09:52 GMT
Tonally correct doesn't appear in the options. My reference point is Martin acoustic guitars. I have one. It's not one of the upmarket ones, but it does exhibit that classic Martin tone. It also has that well known snap and attack, coupled with tremendous punch and low end.
I have become seduced by the sound of a system, only to stick something with a Martin guitar on, and heard just how far away from reality the tone was, and consequently become unseduced.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 10:29:06 GMT
There is a point is well balanced system where all of the virtues listed, including tonal and textural rendering, bass detail and articulation do slot into place quite nicely.
You also do not require an expensive system to achieve this, just careful matching of room/speaker & amp/speaker suitability along with correct set up will put a smile on your face for the RIGHT reasons.
|
|
|
|
Post by jandl100 on Mar 18, 2019 10:56:44 GMT
I guess I fall somewhere in the middle.
I can't fault the detail and dynamics of a Chord Hugo2 DAC, but I can fault its tonal starkness, soullessness and therefore its inability to sound like real music.
And I can't fault the musical flow and liquidity of most planar magnetic headphones of my acquaintance - and I heard a couple of expensive Hifiman at the Kegworth show yesterday to add to my experiences - but I can fault the placement of a layer of "smooth" that comes between me and musical involvement.
|
|
|
|
Post by John on Mar 18, 2019 10:58:48 GMT
I have dynamics in spades so over the last few years I been slowly moving to musical flow without losing the dynamics
|
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Mar 18, 2019 12:06:40 GMT
Could you say more on what you mean by "liquidity" and "flow"? I see these terms popping up but I'm never sure I understand what the characteristic is that they're describing. If you imagine a scale from very detailed but somewhat edgy on one end and musically flowing, fluid and easy on the ear but possibly lacking in dynamics and dull at the other extreme, that may help. I think easy on the ear is the best description for liquid, flowing, fluid reproduction. This is tough as where do you put rhythmically powerful? Or tonal accuracy to answer Chris's question? I think they can possibly be anywhere on this scale. |
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Mar 18, 2019 12:08:27 GMT
Tonally correct doesn't appear in the options.
I think that is a problem more experienced by musicians. Saying that, I know what a piano or violin or a choir sounds like and I want my system to reproduce them realistically. In truth, I think tonal accuracy can be anywhere on this scale. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 12:15:21 GMT
I like to have detail, but equally I don't like the in your face time of sound you get from say an all singing, all dancing Naim system. Vocal quality is incredibly important to me, if a systems does Vocal's well then I usually like it over say something that does everything else well but has recessed vocals.
Overall, I think my system is getting there in all of these directions, and is a darn site better than it was only a year ago.
|
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Mar 18, 2019 12:22:51 GMT
I have deliberately ticked the top box and I'll explain why.
My recent experiences over a year of streaming more and more, ultimately leading to this being my only source, have taught me a lot about digital reproduction and a lot about my personal listening preferences.
My previous setup of Pi/DigiOne > S/PDIF > modified Caiman SEG DAC gave me a huge amount of musical flow, communicating the essence of my favourite genres very well. There was nothing wrong with this setup and several visitors commented that it did most things very well and some things superbly. I wanted to sell off my SACD player (and possibly my turntable in future) in order to reinvest in the areas I wanted to steer the system towards. This is, simply, more detail and more dynamics but without the loss of what I already had in musical communication.
So now the source is Pi/Kali > I2S > LKS DAC in order to try to access those areas. It has been hugely successful as the detail is more than I've ever achieved and the dynamics are knockout. A little more work is required to preserve the flow/fluidity (with PSU and LKS mods) and I'm nearly there already. My enjoyment has increased, which is the final arbiter, and it didn't cost an arm and a leg in comparison with high end components.
The important point for me is that I love detail, dynamics, slam and scale unashamedly - provided it's not harsh - thus my answer to my own question.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 13:31:57 GMT
It is easier to get dynamics of out a softer sounding dac/cd player than it is to obtain musical flow and naturalness from a slam dunk dac/cd player.
Esoteric being case in point, later MSB as well. imho
|
|
|
|
Post by Slinger on Mar 18, 2019 13:38:26 GMT
So the choice is between " screechy-fingernails on a blackboard sounds that make my teeth itch" or " Green & Black's velvet edition 70% cocoa chocolate" or " As exciting as listening to paint dry, but not quite so involving"? Hmmmm, tough choice.  |
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Mar 18, 2019 13:43:01 GMT
It is easier to get dynamics of out a softer sounding dac/cd player than it is to obtain musical flow and naturalness from a slam dunk dac/cd player. Good observation, I don't think many of us have experienced enough different components to know that. I would cite the Caiman SEG as an example. In stock form it sounds nice but a little dynamically restrained. In modified form, especially with a superclock, it has the ability to be quite rhythmically intensive. |
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Mar 18, 2019 13:44:13 GMT
So the choice is between " screechy-fingernails on a blackboard sounds that make my teeth itch" or " Green & Black's velvet edition 70% cocoa chocolate" or " As exciting as listening to paint dry, but not quite so involving"? Hmmmm, tough choice. You are being extreme  Now back off from those two endpoints and it becomes more a matter of personal preference. |
|
|
|
Post by John on Mar 18, 2019 14:55:08 GMT
I like to have detail, but equally I don't like the in your face time of sound you get from say an all singing, all dancing Naim system. Vocal quality is incredibly important to me, if a systems does Vocal's well then I usually like it over say something that does everything else well but has recessed vocals. Overall, I think my system is getting there in all of these directions, and is a darn site better than it was only a year ago. I once had a dedicated flat earther visit he was quite shocked with how well my system handles scale and rhythm 😊 |
|
|
|
Post by MikeMusic on Mar 18, 2019 14:59:53 GMT
Most of this seems to have passed me by as I usually hear better or worse.
The recent upgrades have given me more detail and smoothness
|
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Mar 18, 2019 15:10:46 GMT
The recent upgrades have given me more detail and smoothnessJust checking - by smoothness do you mean lack of harshness? |
|
|
|
Post by Slinger on Mar 18, 2019 15:11:09 GMT
To try and give a sensible (for me) answer... I'd like my system to be able to reproduce the music I imagine the musicians were hearing in their heads when they recorded it - from Argerich to Zappa, from the Sex Pistols to Sol Gabetta. I don't "do" review-speak.
|
|
|
|
Post by MikeMusic on Mar 18, 2019 15:15:30 GMT
The recent upgrades have given me more detail and smoothnessJust checking - by smoothness do you mean lack of harshness? Don't think I have ever had harshness. Smoothness as in all very joined up and together. Downgrade a step or three and I have a broken sound |
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Mar 18, 2019 15:37:42 GMT
I think therefore your 'smoothness' translates to my 'liquid' or 'flow'.
|
|
