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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2018 8:19:07 GMT
Yesterday was as sad disappointment and a big eye opener for me. On Tuesday I delivered for the best Hi-fi Dealer of Inca Tech Claymore from the 1980,s a retro Claymore we now make. Whilst there on the counter was a DUFF modern expensive integrated amp with a combo CD player, it was opened, inside I saw cheap car stereo chips and a very poor PSU design. The whole thing looked as if it came straight from a Application Note. No new designs smaller nasty power supply, Power amp chip,s with crap thermal properties. It then struck me hard the skills of the designer of my past were all gone and this no skill type of design is now in prominent pole position, how long would this piece of kit last, certainly not 40yrs. Then yesterday this fantastic old friend/dealer rang me to tell me the new Claymore Retro sounded just like the old designs but with more holographic sound and deeper bass with lots of grunt. But it showed up equipment faults i.e. the new equipment of today is design to match the same product line, for example Rega to Rega and Linn to Linn . He also told me people are no longer concerned in the quality of the sound and the near real life presentation but only in style and can it talk to digital lies like a NAS systems. What have we done, well we have been conned. The marketing Gura,s (only to make money) have taught us incorrectly and to there opinion that this cheap shite and throw away products is best, best for who I ask?, certainly not the music or you ears and pleasure.
Now my thanks and good wish go to the staff and my friend Ian for all there help, and to show me to make a product sell it as to glow in the dark be cheap to make and die in a 2yrs, a design a 17yr old could do from a apps note, with no skills or feel for the music but worst of all no experience.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2018 9:52:33 GMT
Hi Colin
Not going to disagree, these days sales have no relation to build quality or the performance of the product what so ever, it is more a case of "Wow look at this boys it's great!"
An example of this, on the flight over to Munich this year I was sat next to a account European manager for a very well known UK brand, he openly admitted that on a number of core products they really just about broke even and that the money generators we in a different selection of their portfolio.
It is purely about product awareness and the bottom line sad but true.
Those of us that actually about the quality and performance of the products are in the vast minority.
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Post by MikeMusic on Sept 14, 2018 9:58:26 GMT
Most people buy on external look, features and price.
Doesn't need a marketing genius to sell to them.
The few that want a better sound carry on looking and listening.
A tiny percentage of that find out why their system sounds bad even with good components.
Like all trades good hifi dealers are close to impossible to find.
When I first went to music festivals there were a few hundred of us.
Big change came around 1970 when we had many thousands or tens of thousands and the vast majority were not that into music
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Post by Stratmangler on Sept 14, 2018 10:09:44 GMT
Hi Colin Not going to disagree, these days sales have no relation to build quality or the performance of the product what so ever, it is more a case of "Wow look at this boys it's great!" An example of this, on the flight over to Munich this year I was sat next to a account European manager for a very well known UK brand, he openly admitted that on a number of core products they really just about broke even and that the money generators we in a different selection of their portfolio. It is purely about product awareness and the bottom line sad but true. Those of us that actually about the quality and performance of the products are in the vast minority. I understand and agree with your broad point, Tony, but I'm struggling to equate vast and minority. Pendantically yours ....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2018 10:32:26 GMT
Hi Colin Not going to disagree, these days sales have no relation to build quality or the performance of the product what so ever, it is more a case of "Wow look at this boys it's great!" An example of this, on the flight over to Munich this year I was sat next to a account European manager for a very well known UK brand, he openly admitted that on a number of core products they really just about broke even and that the money generators we in a different selection of their portfolio. It is purely about product awareness and the bottom line sad but true. Those of us that actually about the quality and performance of the products are in the vast minority. I understand and agree with your broad point, Tony, but I'm struggling to equate vast and minority. Pendantically yours ....
Hi Strat Apologies my CPU is suffering from overload this week and your name has slipped my memory sorry! I will quantify it the statement for you, if you took every music listener in the UK the vast majority who actually buy music are between 15-28 that is well know fact supplied by the music industry themselves in fact 84% of purchased music in that age group. Most of it on line, unlike our generation who's sole purpose on a Saturday was to hit the record shops to seek out your bands latest release and top take the piss out of the new romantics latest frilly shirt  Joking aside it was journey into music which many people over 45 can associate with and they cared how it sounded particularly on vinyl. These days the vast majority really do not care on what or how they listen as long as they can listen and spending any more than £300 doing that would be a cardinal sin. You work in a studio or own one, how many times ahs the record company stated 'Radio mix' in which the compression button is liberally pushed! where as a private band would have spent the time with the engineer to maximize the finial sound quality You may find the young hipsters splash out on £600 in ear buds, but that is just a Trendy Wendy pre-requiste. On the grand scheme of things less than 3% of the music buying public actually care about how it is presented to them, compared against acutally listening to music. Think of everyone that actually purchases a music replay device from a Roberts radio compared to a Mega buck Magico ear syringing system, the number for just listening to and really caring about what you hear are frightening small compared to the actual numbers purchased. |
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Post by Stratmangler on Sept 14, 2018 11:05:44 GMT
Hi Strat Apologies my CPU is suffering from overload this week and your name has slipped my memory sorry! I will quantify it the statement for you, if you took every music listener in the UK the vast majority who actually buy music are between 15-28 that is well know fact supplied by the music industry themselves in fact 84% of purchased music in that age group. Most of it on line, unlike our generation who's sole purpose on a Saturday was to hit the record shops to seek out your bands latest release and top take the piss out of the new romantics latest frilly shirt I was just querying the use of "vast minority". The words being used in the same breath is oxymoronic. How can a minority be vast? I take the mickey out of (much younger than me) sales staff when they refer to the LPs I've just bought as "vinyls", and a record player that's become a "vinyl player". I am in the 16% that buys music regularly on both CD and vinyl. I even buy downloads, although that's a relatively rare occurrence. I also get gigs regularly, and actually support the guys that make the music, coz many of them make next to cock all out of the industry today. And, unlike many of today's youngsters, when I buy an LP I buy it to play it. It isn't some weird kind of ornament. I never did get the dressing up brigade that was the New Romantics, and yes, they deserved all the derision they incurred |
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Post by Slinger on Sept 14, 2018 11:54:10 GMT
The music itself, not just the equipment, has changed from the Holy Grail into just another fashion accessory. It's disposable to a huge number of today's listeners. Whereas some of us are still listening to things we bought 50 years ago because they're still bloody brilliant today's mainstream "hit" records are lucky to be remembered after 50 days. Why spend thousands to listen to your disposable music when you can spend hundreds on a piece of tech that plays your music, takes photos and videos, allows you to contact people all over the globe, and...what was the other thing..? Oh yes, makes telephone calls.
I am an old fogey so I'm allowed to hold those opinions.
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Post by MartinT on Sept 14, 2018 12:27:31 GMT
To be fair, marketing gurus are largely reactive and only respond to demand. It's the users who want cheap convenience at the expense of sound quality.
But hasn't it always been the case? Ever since I realised that the pursuit of high quality music replay is a minority sport back in the 1970s. Very many users confuse brand with quality.
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Post by Slinger on Sept 14, 2018 12:40:00 GMT
I'd say that was back to front, Martin, In many cases so-called marketing gurus are the ones creating the demand by using focus groups etc. The "public" hasn't got a clue what it wants next most of the time until somebody covers it in chrome and rhinestones and dangles it in front of them chanting "look at the shiny-shiny, look at the shiny-shiny." |
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Post by MartinT on Sept 14, 2018 12:57:51 GMT
Yes, but they will drop something like a stone if it doesn't see demand. They dangle lots of things not all of which meet with success. The successful ones are the ones that people buy. Supply/Demand. It boils down to not-a-lot-of-people-appreciate-quality or will pay for it.
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Post by MartinT on Sept 14, 2018 15:18:10 GMT
You can't teach people how to appreciate music any more than you can teach people how to appreciate a car.
Analogy...
If someone gets a new car, my first thought is "how does it drive?". It's not "does it have a back massager" or "can it accommodate 7 people with luggage?".
We are at odds. I no more understand their needs than they understand mine.
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Post by MikeMusic on Sept 14, 2018 15:26:02 GMT
You can't teach people how to appreciate music any more than you can teach people how to appreciate a car. Analogy... If someone gets a new car, my first thought is "how does it drive?". It's not "does it have a back massager" or "can it accommodate 7 people with luggage?". We are at odds. I no more understand their needs than they understand mine. What's the speedo go up to ?  |
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Post by roughneck on May 11, 2020 19:06:20 GMT
Yesterday was as sad disappointment and a big eye opener for me. On Tuesday I delivered for the best Hi-fi Dealer of Inca Tech Claymore from the 1980,s a retro Claymore we now make. Whilst there on the counter was a DUFF modern expensive integrated amp with a combo CD player, it was opened, inside I saw cheap car stereo chips and a very poor PSU design. The whole thing looked as if it came straight from a Application Note. No new designs smaller nasty power supply, Power amp chip,s with crap thermal properties. It then struck me hard the skills of the designer of my past were all gone and this no skill type of design is now in prominent pole position, how long would this piece of kit last, certainly not 40yrs. Then yesterday this fantastic old friend/dealer rang me to tell me the new Claymore Retro sounded just like the old designs but with more holographic sound and deeper bass with lots of grunt. But it showed up equipment faults i.e. the new equipment of today is design to match the same product line, for example Rega to Rega and Linn to Linn . He also told me people are no longer concerned in the quality of the sound and the near real life presentation but only in style and can it talk to digital lies like a NAS systems. What have we done, well we have been conned. The marketing Gura,s (only to make money) have taught us incorrectly and to there opinion that this cheap shite and throw away products is best, best for who I ask?, certainly not the music or you ears and pleasure. Now my thanks and good wish go to the staff and my friend Ian for all there help, and to show me to make a product sell it as to glow in the dark be cheap to make and die in a 2yrs, a design a 17yr old could do from a apps note, with no skills or feel for the music but worst of all no experience. Do Rega contain cheap car stereo chips? |
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Post by MartinT on May 11, 2020 19:14:35 GMT
I've no idea but it would be built down to a price and accommodate market demands, as with most products.
Therefore the first thing asked about it may not be "does it sound good?"
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