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Post by stanleyb on Oct 1, 2018 9:41:17 GMT
All we are waiting for now is the SEG144 upgrade which dispenses with power supplies and cables altogether Now how about those chaps that have just purchased that last great upgrade GU22 will they now have to pay again? The SEG-30 was specifically written and developed for Martin and John to test over the past weekend when they had a get together to test various modifications on their own DACs and mine, plus some firmware code variations. The SEG-30 is not for general production release, but a customized firmware. I haven't considered putting it up for sale. Given the amount if man hours that were needed to develop it, the recovery cost would be outside the price bracket of the cost that I normally sell the firmware for.
As for a SEG144: the DAC is not Bluetooth or W-Fi compatible.
By the way, does anyone know a person called Andy Bell?
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Post by stanleyb on Oct 1, 2018 10:25:53 GMT
Addendum: just to clarify, Martin tested a couple of different FW chips for me since he has a far better system that can pick up differences that I can't manage in my set up. Some of them were based on the use of a supercap power supply, and the use of a clock upgrade. The SEG-30 has all of those various codes compiled in to one. I don't know how much difference it would make on an SEG that is in its stock/unmodified configuration. I sold out of my own supercap PSU and I don't have an oscillator upgrade. So I myself can't speak from experience how it actually sounds. But hopefully I shall know more in about two weeks after I get my next batch of the supercap PSU, and managed to succeed in building and fitting an oscillator to try out.
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Post by John on Oct 1, 2018 11:01:46 GMT
To my knowledge the code had been completely rewritten and must of taken considerable time With the level of improved performance I would say this upgrade is a no brainer
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Post by Slinger on Oct 1, 2018 11:34:47 GMT
By the way, does anyone know a person called Andy Bell? The only Andy Bell(s) I know are either half of the band Erasure or the guitarist with the band Ride.
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Post by MartinT on Oct 1, 2018 11:35:38 GMT
To be clear and not cause an influx of enquiries to Stan (sorry about that, stanleyb) the SEG-22 is excellent for use with the supercap power supply or just with the SEG as-is. The SEG-30 will only give you benefit if you are using a superclock, which very few people are doing. Please don't ask Stan for a SEG-30 if you are not using a modified SEG with superclock!
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Post by stanleyb on Oct 1, 2018 22:50:42 GMT
I decided to try a different approach and fitted a temperature controlled CMOS clock to a Caiman MKII instead to try out. The clock that I used needs a clean 5V, which is available from the regulators combined with the supercap mod for the digital circuits.
There is definitely more PRaT in the presentation, as well as better separation and detail. There is also a bit more of a dynamic range. That's when used with the custom SEG-30 firmware. It certainly gives the MKII an extra life span.
I hope to try it out in the SEG. I might also try an extra one out in the USB section. But I want to add another mod to the 12/15V supply line in the SEG to avoid any voltage variation drops in the supply line of the discrete output stage. The MKII doesn't have an analogue output stage so it won't need any changes to the supply line.
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Post by MartinT on Oct 1, 2018 23:16:33 GMT
Nice alternative clock there, Stan. Your findings seem very similar to mine.
I didn't know the SEG-30 would work in the Caiman-II.
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Post by stanleyb on Oct 1, 2018 23:44:45 GMT
I prefer a temperature controlled clock for accuracy. It is stable within a minute or so after switch on and once the encased components have started to reach their optimum working temperature. I have an expensive laboratory reference temperature controlled CMOS clock coming from abroad to see if the extra cost of it makes any noticeable difference. On paper it is supposed to be about 200X to 500X more accurate. But it might not have been money well spent. I doubt I would be able to hear the difference between the consumer version and a laboratory version. I'll have to fit it to my own DAC I suppose. It's a bit OTT for a consumer DAC at this price level.
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Post by John on Oct 2, 2018 6:31:07 GMT
Very interested to know how this will develop
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Post by stanleyb on Oct 2, 2018 7:34:16 GMT
I have a customer with two of the SEG. His SEG is with me to have some mods done, and he is interested to have my oscillator mod fitted. He is going to compare one that is fitted with the oscillator against the other without it. I have one piece spare that I can fit to your SEG if you want to give the listening test a try for yourself.
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Post by brettj on Oct 2, 2018 8:06:19 GMT
Hey Stan
I’m more interested in the SEG-30 for my supercapped/modded and clocked SEG with super capped PSU
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Post by stanleyb on Oct 2, 2018 8:11:00 GMT
At the moment I have quite a few people interested.
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Post by MartinT on Oct 2, 2018 8:33:55 GMT
I have one piece spare that I can fit to your SEG if you want to give the listening test a try for yourself. Go for it, John. You've heard what the superclock does for mine.
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Post by John on Oct 2, 2018 10:43:05 GMT
I have a customer with two of the SEG. His SEG is with me to have some mods done, and he is interested to have my oscillator mod fitted. He is going to compare one that is fitted with the oscillator against the other without it. I have one piece spare that I can fit to your SEG if you want to give the listening test a try for yourself. Yes that would be great I message tonight
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Post by MartinT on Oct 2, 2018 15:16:55 GMT
The sign of a great source transport is how well it handles truly crappy recordings. Here are some I've thrown at the supercapped/superclocked SEG and I must say it's getting something good out of each one. It goes without saying that the music is superb.
I'm not saying it can polish a turd, but it does dig deep. In the case of the Coldplay, it has to work very hard. The sibilance on overloaded mic circuits is truly shocking, as is the loudness limiting throughout.
Hawkind - Orgone Accumulator (live)
Emerson, Lake & Palmer - Jerusalem (live)
Coldplay - Fix You
On second thoughts, the latter was asking too much. Especially dire.
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Post by Firebottle on Oct 11, 2018 8:21:32 GMT
I decided to try a different approach and fitted a temperature controlled CMOS clock to a Caiman MKII instead to try out. The clock that I used needs a clean 5V, which is available from the regulators combined with the supercap mod for the digital circuits.
There is definitely more PRaT in the presentation, as well as better separation and detail. There is also a bit more of a dynamic range. That's when used with the custom SEG-30 firmware. It certainly gives the MKII an extra life span.
I hope to try it out in the SEG. I might also try an extra one out in the USB section. But I want to add another mod to the 12/15V supply line in the SEG to avoid any voltage variation drops in the supply line of the discrete output stage. The MKII doesn't have an analogue output stage so it won't need any changes to the supply line.
I am going to try the same with my Caiman II but wonder if you are exceeding the digital input limits of the chip when feeding the output from a 5V xtal unit. The spec says Vdd +0.3V max.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2018 8:29:26 GMT
Personally I would just design it properly rather than putting a sticking plaster on the unit, also the quality of the power and regulation to the clock is equally important as the clock it self imho.
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Post by stanleyb on Oct 11, 2018 9:20:44 GMT
I decided to try a different approach and fitted a temperature controlled CMOS clock to a Caiman MKII instead to try out. The clock that I used needs a clean 5V, which is available from the regulators combined with the supercap mod for the digital circuits.
There is definitely more PRaT in the presentation, as well as better separation and detail. There is also a bit more of a dynamic range. That's when used with the custom SEG-30 firmware. It certainly gives the MKII an extra life span.
I hope to try it out in the SEG. I might also try an extra one out in the USB section. But I want to add another mod to the 12/15V supply line in the SEG to avoid any voltage variation drops in the supply line of the discrete output stage. The MKII doesn't have an analogue output stage so it won't need any changes to the supply line.
I am going to try the same with my Caiman II but wonder if you are exceeding the digital input limits of the chip when feeding the output from a 5V xtal unit. The spec says Vdd +0.3V max. Since taking a picture of that mod I have moved the supply pin connection to the 3.3V regulator instead of the 5V. Take note that the capacitor for the 5V and 3.3V regulator needs the supercap mod with the Tokin 47000uF cap for this technique. That's because the supercap helps to keep the supply pin steady and the noise extremely low. On the Caiman MKII the 5V and 3.3V regulators are specially designed for low noise satellite use with guaranteed regulation of less than 1% errors.
I have installed the same mod on a couple of SEGs, and the owners are well happy.
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Post by Firebottle on Oct 11, 2018 10:26:13 GMT
Personally I would just design it properly rather than putting a sticking plaster on the unit, also the quality of the power and regulation to the clock is equally important as the clock it self imho. Oh yes I am well aware of that. However for a £3 mod I thought it would be worth a try.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2018 10:36:17 GMT
OK Alan understand a price thing, however a true TXCO require two supplies one for the oven one for the clock, and they need to be totally separate otherwise it can go the other way quite rapidly, just use a low phase noise clock and make sure you have tight regulation supplying it (separate supply if possible).
Supercaps may have a good reserve but their RCR and ESR is poor and in clock situations I would looking for a different solution or a combination, also not all super caps are the same imho
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