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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 9:58:10 GMT
Did you know that proper Genres have a Instrument Toolbox
Any respected Prog Toolbox should consist of A Flute, Mellotron & Hammond Organ as a strict rule of thumb.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 10:20:32 GMT
Drum Kits.. 4 Piece: [Bass Drum/Tom Tom/Floor Tom Tom/Snare] Any bigger kits smack of Over pretentious, which leads to more complex drumming which in turn alters one of the keys to early sparse Prog sound.
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Post by dsjr on Dec 11, 2017 18:55:45 GMT
Nah - I want a T.O.N.T.O. - look it up Trouble is, you need a degree in electrical engineering to maintain and patch-up the beast before use and many decades with the muse to be able to understand the infinite tonalities on offer to the right musician. Incredible in the right hands though as it was for many, many years. Every so often, I play 'Zero Time' which I'm lucky enough to have on a collector-edition CD of the two T.O.N.T.O albums. The skill in programming the thing is incredible and I understand no vocoder was used on one particular track, the words enunciated with painstaking care manually - must have taken ages... The beast is now a living, working exhibit in a Canadian music museum which can still be used by suitable musicians I believe.
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Post by ChrisB on Dec 11, 2017 19:28:44 GMT
Nah - I want a T.O.N.T.O. - look it up Is that the 'expanded' version?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 19:50:00 GMT
Which are NOT Prog
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Post by dsjr on Dec 13, 2017 14:20:13 GMT
NOT PROG? Expanded or otherwise ( ) the music and tonalities/textures/light-and-shade created by that instrument set standards and aspirations for a generation of keyboardists across many genres in the years that followed imo and not one small musical pigeon-hole. I can't think of a more genuinely 'progressive' 'EM' album than Zero Time - I cite the tracks Jetsex and Aurora as proof and although 'Riversong' is based in real musical scales and harmonics, which 'Prog' as a genre tried to bend out of listenability quite often in my opinion, the WAY this instrument's voices were enunciated (no bloody vocoder here!) is more progressive than any others really managed (I think Vangelis came close with real playing ability lacking in his much loved German compatriots who majored more on soundscapes at the time) and in fact the chromatic scale used (was it sevenths or seventeenths, I can't remember but it's described in an interview/lecture Malcolm Cecil gave and it's on YouTube). The grand work on 'Switched On Bach' for example were pedestrian and all-one-level in comparison... J M Jarre seemed derivative in his earlier synth work and apparently he couldn't play well and got someone else to realise the trickier keyboard bits I'm informed...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 14:45:52 GMT
I took your advice and looked it up. All I saw were pics of the Lone Ranger and Johnny bloody Depp!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 16:08:35 GMT
NOT PROG? Expanded or otherwise ( ) the music and tonalities/textures/light-and-shade created by that instrument set standards and aspirations for a generation of keyboardists across many genres in the years that followed imo and not one small musical pigeon-hole. I can't think of a more genuinely 'progressive' 'EM' album than Zero Time - I cite the tracks Jetsex and Aurora as proof and although 'Riversong' is based in real musical scales and harmonics, which 'Prog' as a genre tried to bend out of listenability quite often in my opinion, the WAY this instrument's voices were enunciated (no bloody vocoder here!) is more progressive than any others really managed (I think Vangelis came close with real playing ability lacking in his much loved German compatriots who majored more on soundscapes at the time) and in fact the chromatic scale used (was it sevenths or seventeenths, I can't remember but it's described in an interview/lecture Malcolm Cecil gave and it's on YouTube). The grand work on 'Switched On Bach' for example were pedestrian and all-one-level in comparison... J M Jarre seemed derivative in his earlier synth work and apparently he couldn't play well and got someone else to realise the trickier keyboard bits I'm informed... I put what i put because Early prog [1969-1971/2 at a push] is very different in every respect to what came after. Instrument are Tools & i do not care what musicians says, Advancements in instrument influence their music making abilities.
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Post by ChrisB on Dec 13, 2017 17:51:52 GMT
I took your advice and looked it up. All I saw were pics of the Lone Ranger and Johnny bloody Depp! :o Hi-ho! Try Googling this: The Original New Timbral Orchestra
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Post by Slinger on Dec 13, 2017 19:14:58 GMT
I took your advice and looked it up. All I saw were pics of the Lone Ranger and Johnny bloody Depp! Hi-ho! Try Googling this: The Original New Timbral Orchestra Or this: Tonto's Expanding Head Band.
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Post by dsjr on Dec 14, 2017 14:29:59 GMT
I can't win here so shall bow out with the tiniest amount of dignity intact
I find the instrument itself 'progressive' especially for the period it was constructed (starting in 1968 with but one Moog III C, the second one plus the other panels and extra synths and control centres were built into the distinctive cases a little later I gather). Of course the 'voices' it has were only as good as the musicians playing and patching/tuning it and maybe their background was more jazz than 'prog-rock,' but for 1972, I felt it mind-expanding as much as any more conventional post-hippy prog group..
To end and let you move on, I'm glad this synth system is still alive and working. Malcolm Cecil apparently sold it to a Canadian museum, the intention being that is available to be used by aspiring musicians in the future and not merely locked away or (heaven forbid) broken up/parted out...
The track is the first one in which TONTO's music and I found each other when I was fifteen years old back in 1972...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 14:43:43 GMT
Syths have no place in proper Prog Im a massive fan of ELP but don't like the use of Moog, their best work imho is the early stuff without, Why i prefer the Nice at times..
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Post by MartinT on Dec 14, 2017 14:46:24 GMT
To me, ELP just wouldn't be the same without the Moog.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 14:54:23 GMT
To me, ELP just wouldn't be the same without the Moog. Why not. Theres hardly any Moog on the Debut album with exception to the back end of"Tank" the back end of "Lucky Man"..
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Post by MartinT on Dec 14, 2017 14:58:02 GMT
I know, but I love the back end of Lucky Man and everything that came after!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 15:31:21 GMT
But Emmo was moving further away from my ideal. I pretty much given up listening to ELP by BSS.. Proper prog
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Post by MartinT on Dec 14, 2017 17:43:58 GMT
Yep, I have some Nice but how can you not love Tarkus?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 17:51:25 GMT
Yep, I have some Nice but how can you not love Tarkus? I do love 'Tarkus' but The Moog was getting a bit too much use by 'Trilogy' However 'Trilogy' is a good album 'Brain Salad Surgery' i can certainly do without. However going back to the opening post. The sparce instrument available around 1969/70 is what makes the early prog sound i like. What im saying is the use of things like Synths, Bigger drum Kits etc certainly influenced the progression as clearly see when you compare something like ELP first album to Brain Salad Surgery. Yes fisrt album compared to 'Topographic Ocean'.. Exactly why i use a cut of period in the prog i listen to..I dont like the advancements thee years down the line..
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Post by dsjr on Dec 15, 2017 10:37:26 GMT
I grew to respect 'Topographic Ocean' but not sure I like it overmuch The musicianship is awe inspiring with all the Yes albums though, but it's Relayer and Going For The One which really get my vote - too late for you though.. S'cuse the drift.
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Post by MartinT on Dec 15, 2017 11:36:31 GMT
Tarkus and Relayer have a lot in common - theme, musicianship and pure awesomeness.
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