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Post by MartinT on Nov 4, 2017 17:42:19 GMT
These are both HAT (Hardware attached on Top) plug-in boards for the Raspberry Pi microcomputer. Their intention is to provide an ulltra-low jitter digital audio output to a DAC for music streaming purposes - either file-based or over the internet. They represent the highest achievable sound quality from the inexpensive Raspberry Pi platform. The Digi+ Pro comes in at £32.90 and the DigiOne at €83.90. Digi+ Pro DigiOne John's DigiOne is in a Pi 3 build while my Digi+ Pro is in a Pi 2 build. Both are setup with Spotify Premium in hi-bitrate mode and both are running from 5V USB phone batteries. The test DAC is a Caiman SEG setup in Mode 4 (data recovered clock) and powered from a 12V lead-acid battery. Cable is a standard Profigold 1.5m co-ax. The rest of my system as in my signature. |
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Post by MartinT on Nov 4, 2017 17:56:20 GMT
We started with my Digi+ Pro and played several tracks from Spotify, which we agreed was the best way of making the comparisons. The sound was surprisingly good with impact, deep bass and much detail. Suddenly, since acquiring this device, Spotify has become a primary source for me and the sound quality is very good.
After some acclimatisation we switched over to the DigiOne. It was immediately apparent over the first few bars that the sound had taken another jump up in sound quality. Suddenly there was more impact, more depth, lots of tiny shimmering detail especially with cymbals and a general easy, rhythmic and fluid delivery. Harshness was gone and musicality up. Playing more and more music we were pretty much hooked. This is what ultra-low jitter does when converted back to music.
As a further test, we switched the SEG to Mode 1 (standard S/PDIF clock). Somewhat surprisingly, the sound quality went south with a flattening of the soundstage into what seemed a very two-dimensional presentation. Put it back to Mode 4 and all was well again.
So, ultra-low jitter at the Pi end gets the data optimised for transmission, but reclocking at the SEG end for received data makes a difference, too. The cable clearly has an effect here. Lesson well learned!
In all this, the SEG was faultless and just stepped up its performance with the DigiOne. We ended the session with some truly amazing sounds and kept having to remind ourselves that we were listening to Spotify!
There is no doubt that I'll be placing an order for a DigiOne based on what I heard today.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 18:02:43 GMT
I think these kinds of things would hit off more with people if the hassle & confusion was not there, cos it is confusing.. I personally do not see the point in it all, I have sat down & read about all you have written from day one but still do not see anything in it that convinces me i need it.
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Post by ChrisB on Nov 4, 2017 18:04:38 GMT
Thanks for this Martin and John. I wonder what influence the difference between the Pi 2 and Pi 3 is having? Not much I'd expect but it could do with pinning down.
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seanm
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Post by seanm on Nov 4, 2017 18:34:58 GMT
Gentlemen,
Thank you conducting this test and for posting the results. This is very interesting. As I've said before, not only are we getting a lot of music for the money, it's fun to tinker with and each upgrade does not break the bank. Also I believe that currently, we are still at a point on the curve where each inexpensive upgrade is having a large improvement on the sound quality.
Chris,
Pi2 vs Pi3, initially, I did not think that this would make a significant difference, However, then I remembered, the MoodeAudio, (which I just happen to prefer on balance) has a few experimental low latency alternative kernels which I think only run on the Pi3.
So while this was not a factor in today's tests, it might be something to think about when considering the relative merits of a Pi2 vs Pi3
Cheers
Sean
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Post by MartinT on Nov 4, 2017 18:42:43 GMT
We discussed Pi 2 versus Pi 3 and decided it's not much of a factor. I even loaded down the Pi 3 by installing the Spotify Connect plug-in while we were listening to no deleterious effect, even though it must have been working hard.
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Post by MartinT on Nov 4, 2017 18:46:20 GMT
I think these kinds of things would hit off more with people if the hassle & confusion was not there, cos it is confusing.. I personally do not see the point in it all, I have sat down & read about all you have written from day one but still do not see anything in it that convinces me i need it. Andr'e, all I can say to you is that I did not consider Spotify to be a primary source until recently. It was always great for evaluation but I would eventually buy the CD. Today, I heard Spotify sound so completely convincing that there is no doubt it's a primary source. For the cost of peanuts compared with the rest of my system, I can have this sound quality from a vast range of albums. That was enough reason for me. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 18:56:53 GMT
I think i read you were also using a Laptop with these Raspberries, to me thats an extra box that i dont need when i already have a superb sounding Streamer that does all.. or am i missing something? Spotify is ok but i find some albums a bit toppy compared to the FLAC files of the same, besides there is not much on there for me..
I was using a Samsung Tablet a bit back with the streamer, You can use micro SD cards with them that hold a lotta music..
btw. I bought one of the 1st HRT streamers that came in the country, i later bought the newer different shaped Streamer II. i still prefer the original.. The goal for me is to Get Digital media to sound like a good Turntable, a lot of people go for the too Resolute bright sound that to me aint what music should sound like.. I suppose people like different sounds..
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Post by John on Nov 4, 2017 20:02:37 GMT
Martin was using a tablet to remote control the music, its a really easy way to enjoy in the comfort of your home. I never before thought I could see myself as having Spotify as my primary source, but now I am starting to question this. Its not up with Martin wonderful Ayre but it has become a lot more fluid in sound and we both found it hard to believe the sound quality we were hearing. This was not bright sounding it made the sound more natural
I thought the Caiman had a bigger influnce on sound quaity when not using the SEQ reclocking function the sound became quite flat
I will write a seperate post on my change of DAC to the Caiman SEQ
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 20:16:54 GMT
I want all the Device control without touching the Laptop but Spoty does not have what i want to listen to. You see my Issue. I need something i can do the same from my own Rips..
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Post by MartinT on Nov 4, 2017 21:22:09 GMT
The tablet is just the controller, Andr'e. It can be anything, even a phone. It doesn't handle the music.
The Raspberry Pi can stream all of your music files, you only need to point it to them on a computer in the network and it will catalogue them all. If you have Spotify and YouTube plug-ins, a search will search everything: files, Spotify, YouTube, internet radio.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 21:27:33 GMT
Yeh i know the Tablet, Phone etc are controllers. You saying to Raspberry can be controlled from Devices?
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Post by MartinT on Nov 4, 2017 21:32:30 GMT
That's what we're doing!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 21:35:56 GMT
What happens when the controller software finishes? Long term is what i always think about.. Not a major concern!!
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Post by MartinT on Nov 4, 2017 22:03:17 GMT
No client controller software. The Pi generates its own controller page. You just browse to it from any browser.
Yes, 20 years will be more than enough for me!!
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Post by Clive on Nov 4, 2017 23:46:35 GMT
It's good that your DigiOne findings tally with mine, so I'm not going mad!
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seanm
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Post by seanm on Nov 5, 2017 7:54:37 GMT
The PI's are generally run "headless", (no display, mouse or keyboard etc). As Martin has said control can be achieved from any web browser on any device. But that is only part of it... The underlying music playing and control is handled by a process called "MPD" (Music player Daemon). This is very much in the Unix operating system style, in that it is a process with a well known protocol, a well defined interface and it does one thing and one thing well. Hence you can find a 101 clients for Android etc which will control it. The investment in a particular client is tiny.. takes 10 mins to set up and if you do not like it, move to another.
This approach is comparable with a good email protocol such such as IMAP where you can flirt with 101 clients on many machines and they all see a single consistent view of your email which is left on the server. You have no real tie-in with a particular client or platform.
All in all, from a user perspective, it works in a very similar way to a SONOS system
At the moment, I do not use spotify... my view of this world splits into 3:
1. The controller... any MPD client or web browser I choose today on any platform... no loyalty or real effort investment
2. The bits to music HW... A Pi with either a DAC or Digi Out board, I have several*
3. The music storage... Basically a NAS# full of FLACs (This is where the effort was put in... all that ripping and checking the quality of tags and album art)%
If a new or better streaming solution presented itself tomorrow, I would be hope it would just plug in and use 3 above. It would either replace, or work alongside 1+2 with no real wasted effort.
* One nice aspect of the Pi approach is the software is all contained on a microSD card which costs a few pounds. With an extra card, I can leave the working system alone, tinker with some alternative software and I will never be more than 5 mins away from a working system, (by simply powering down, swapping the known good SW back and restarting). Moreover, most of the HW is very affordable and is improving in leaps and bounds. While each generation of the HW has sounded quite reasonable for the money/convenience, there are/were fundamental flaws such as the quality of the power supply routing and clock jitter. These are being aggressively addressed and so big improvements are being made relatively easily. The Pi <-> HAT interface is generally well known and used. A new super-improved wonder DAC/digi board is typically £30-40 (The digi one is expensive in relative terms!) and is simply a swap and a bit of a tinker with the SW typically.
# It was a full NAS back in the UK, Currently, I am working abroad and travelling very light. There is a USB3 drive hanging off of the back of the router doing a very passable impersonation of a NAS
% This approach means that all systems, "main", "second", "bedroom" and to a point my car see one common music library
Cheers
Sean
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Post by MartinT on Nov 13, 2017 20:06:01 GMT
I swear the DigiOne is running in as it sounds even better tonight. I had fun listening to my four co-ax cables to select the best one for continued use. The DigiOne is a truly remarkable board design. It might seem expensive by Pi standards but it's bloody cheap by system standards, especially when you hear what it can do.
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Post by John on Nov 13, 2017 20:16:26 GMT
I agree sound has got better now using Mark Grant cable
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Post by Tim on Nov 13, 2017 20:21:56 GMT
Basically a NAS full of FLACs (This is where the effort was put in... all that ripping and checking the quality of tags and album art)Tell me about it, no mean task if you have a large library. I never want to do that again! |
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