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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 11:45:45 GMT
I am sure a good few of you use these well publicized services, CD quality and now high resolution feeds readily available.
While I realise that these attract around £20 @ month in fee's do you gents feel they are worth the investment?
This would be a two sided question, Is the quality up the mark and obviously it allows you a much greater selection of music.
Would like to hear your experiences with any of the usual suspects, Qoboz, Tidal, Deezer and Spotify.
Aware you will require MQA to listen to Tidal's high rez delights however would be grateful if you would shre your thoughts with me.
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Post by John on Apr 9, 2017 11:58:39 GMT
I think Spotify is good to discover new music and as long as you not listening to anything to complex is not bad. Feed it some Dream Theater and it is found a bit wanting.
Tidal I would like to try if I had MQA
I not tried the other two
I would be happy enough if I could get one of these services to sound as good as my file based set up
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Post by ChrisB on Apr 9, 2017 12:13:50 GMT
I've been using Spotify for about 8 or 9 years now. I don't use it as a source for serious listening - it's more like a discovery tool for me. I use its vast catalogue to discover new music. If I find something I really like, then I usually buy a proper copy.
The sound quality is OK, but obviously not as good as it could be. The reason I got myself a Rasp Pi streamer was to try to make Spotify sound better and get away from connecting noisy laptops to the main system.
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Post by ChrisB on Apr 9, 2017 12:14:23 GMT
Your question sounds like market research Tony. Are you planning something?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 20:00:19 GMT
Hello Chris
I am genuinely interested in users thoughts on these services last year we acquired a streaming manufacturer and a big attraction for people looking at these devices is the ability to access the subscription services
Over the last eight months I have been trailing each of these with varing results I would like see if other users have had similar experianes
Regardless of systems would just like feedback on users feelings about them both good and bad
Qoboz you can access high Rez streaming from a seperate purchase folder though this costs £220 a year 😳
Thanks
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Post by John on Apr 10, 2017 6:06:59 GMT
I been thinking why I still do not use High quality subscrption services to the extent of others
I think mostly for me it is the fact I do not actually own the music I am happy enough to use Spotify to discover new music. The releated artist section is good for this. But I still rather have a copy of the file on my system
What might work well is to have a day or a week rate I probaly end up using this quite a bit even though the rate would be higher and perhaps this might encourage me to get a yearly or monthly subscrption for something like Qoboz
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Post by zippy on Apr 10, 2017 7:53:39 GMT
In the past I've tried almost all the basic services, and found without exception that they're not as good sound quality as my home streaming from the PC.
I figured that to me even the relatively modest monthly fee of £10 or so would not be worth it.
I used to use the free (to me as I already have a subscription to Prime) Amazon Music to browse and decide if I wanted to buy. Unfortunately since Amazon created the chargeable 'music unlimited' most of the new releases are only available on that service so I can't even do that any more.
I recognise that there are now some premium services which may well be as good as my home system but again I'm not prepared to pay the higher fees.
You'd probably call me a 'low volume purchaser', and £20 per month would buy maybe 4 cd's that I want to listen to, rather than hundreds of online albums I don't want !
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Post by jandl100 on Apr 10, 2017 8:01:52 GMT
I stream straight from my laptop - USB cable to DAC.
Classical music listener, 99% of the time.
I started off with Tidal Hirez.
Good sq. Easily comparable to my carefully chosen CD playback system.
I found it a bit slow to respond, search engine not very good, it could be a real challenge to find works because they had been so poorly indexed. Classical catalogue not bad, but far from all-encompassing.
Tidal then went through a glitchy period where it kept hanging and a friend advised me to try Spotify Premium.
I was dubious to say the least with a rez about 1/4 of Tidal. But I was surprised how good it sounded.
Classical catalogue substantially better than Tidal. Search engine better. Much faster to respond. Easy to access music mid-track (Tidal very poor at this) - I like to do this when comparing performances of the same work. It's a classical music thing.
Tidal got over its glitches, but I had been impressed by Spotify's interface and music catalogue - so I ran Tidal Hirez and Spotify Premium in parallel for 4 months (the Tidal was on a Black Friday 4 months for 1 offer!).
To my great surprise I found I was playing Spotify pretty much all the time, the only rare exceptions being when Tidal had something I wanted that Spotify didn't.
I did some back to back comparisons and was convinced that Tidal did sound a bit better. One particular track on Tidal I thought "yes, Tidal is better, you just don't quite get this clarity and speed on Spotify", but just to check I went back to listen to the same track on Spotify and, you guessed it, I had been listening to Spotify all along.
That was it - effectively a blind test!! I let the Tidal subscription lapse and have been a happy Spotify listener ever since.
If Spotify goes higher rez (similar to Tidal's 1412Kbs) as is being mooted, I'll try it but it wouldn't amaze me if I stuck with the current Premium service.
I did try Qobuz, but the classical catalogue is dire and gave it up straight away.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 8:38:33 GMT
I use Spotify to discover new music on a regular basis and have been surprised by how good it is sound quality wise running through my streamer. Yes, lossless files have more detail, but overall it is pretty good. I use Spotify Premium, but managed to get it for free via my mobile contract.
Would I use a higher resolution (lossless) streaming service which cost an amount per month?, I doubt it in the near future as I have the above capability and own quite a lot of music, which I increase on a monthly basis.
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Post by Eduardo Wobblechops on Apr 10, 2017 8:46:25 GMT
Tidal user here. I find the SQ very good. Just to note, you do not need an MQA dac to avail yourself of this, the Tidal software will decode for you, so a conventional dac can be used.
I'm paying for the premium service which is £25 a month, but the way I look at it, that's the price of one new slab of vinyl, so seems pretty good value for money.
With the use of my new Mytek dac, the sound is easily on a par with my vinyl set up.
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Post by John on Apr 10, 2017 9:26:26 GMT
At the weekend I tried to subscribe to the Tidal high quality service. I set up a PayPal account loaded the software but it kept telling me I had to subscribe again but was clearly showing I was subscribed so gave up on it and cancelled my subscription
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Post by Eduardo Wobblechops on Apr 10, 2017 9:49:27 GMT
Not good John. Can't say I had a problem when I registered.
Try with a different email address.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 10:39:55 GMT
Thank you so far for the feedback nice to see a good few of you trying them.
Having spent a great deal of time with all of them, I am a little underwhelmed with both Tidal and Qoboz CD quality streams, granted a lot depends on your connection speed, quality and your internal network distribution at home. Along with playback devices
Having tested them on a great deal of equipment and price points the results have been consistent right across the spectrum of equipment.
I noticed that Jerry mentioned high rez streaming rate of 1412kps, that is basic CD quality rate high resolution rates start at 1411Kps this is CD quality still a significant step over most radio stations but not high resolution streaming.
However a lot is being made of the 24bit 44.1Khz size point which has a file size / transfer rate of 2116.80Kps or 2.1Mb's.
For ourselves true high resolution formats start @ 24 bit 88.2Khz which requires a transfer speed of 4233.60Kps or 4.2Mbs
for 24/176.4Khz files are 8448.00kps or close to 8.5Mbs a significant bandwidth take up. Obviously the higher rates do take up more!
Thank you for thoughts so far.
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Post by speedysteve on Apr 10, 2017 12:34:01 GMT
I tried Tidal for a month. SQ was good. Not having an app solution, or browser that could control the USB streaming PC from tablet and phone was its downfall for me.
I draw the line at needing a Roon sub as well.
Many have complained about this but it seems to fall on deaf ears.
Spotify does this so well.
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Post by Greg on Apr 10, 2017 12:48:34 GMT
I use Tidal and love it. Same quality as my ripped files and better than playing through a CDP. I have also used deeper and Qobuz. Indexing for classical on Qobuz and Tidal is dreadful. Despite the volume of material stored on the different systems, I often find recordings I would like to listen to is not available. This may well be because I particular like popular music from the late 1960's up to the 80's and older stuff may not be so readily available. New stuff is generally available apart from more obscure stuff. No system is likely to be complete catalogue wise. I've happily dumped my other sources apart from my vinyl which I will retain.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 13:43:48 GMT
A lot of this mirrors our experience and experiences of our streaming machine customers as well.
What about drop out's and sign in to account problems?
Any one actually use the full high resolution subscription on Qobuz at all?
So far the majority of feedback on Tidal is generally positive, Qoboz not so, though Spotify for the masses seems very popular.
This response is for Greg, thank you for your thoughts at the moment you are only one of three people (that has been replied with similar thoughts) that feel Tidal sound is good.
Personally I find it quite a way off in terms of reply against files, though genuinely much better than radio, however its your feedback that counts, mine are only observations.
Thank you again chaps
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Post by MartinT on Apr 10, 2017 14:50:14 GMT
I suffer from poor broadband bandwidth at the moment, which does affect my views. I have been massively impressed with Spotify Premium, the SQ via my modified Pi/HiFiBerry/Caiman SEG setup is a revelation. It's not quite CD quality, but as with Jerry it's more than good enough for music selection and some serious evaluation. I think that anyone who finds Spotify Premium not listenable has not got things sufficiently optimised.
The Spotify interface is good, searching results are reasonable and speed good. The music range is vast. It handles my occasional dropouts very well and the family subscription for £15 is a bargain.
If any hi-res service is going to succeed, it needs to look at the Spotify model carefully. Personally, I'd prefer that Spotify go hi-res as I already use it on all my devices and I like it.
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Post by Greg on Apr 10, 2017 17:50:18 GMT
This response is for Greg, thank you for your thoughts at the moment you are only one of three people (that has been replied with similar thoughts) that feel Tidal sound is good. I can only speak as I find. I know a few others who share my views. I have no doubt the rest of the delivery system is critical as well. I use a Sonic Transport, microRendu (a significant step up over my previous RPi/Digi+ pro) with Roon. I am reserving judgement over the Tidal high res releases. There is something about them I don't like. They can be more revealing but in doing so seem to introduce additional artefacts which seem to spoil the listening experience. I am in Bristol and always happy to demo to anyone interested, especially if it proves I am or am not deluded  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 18:31:02 GMT
Hi Greg,
Again thank you, we can each say as we find it nothing more I agree.
With the Tidal high rates the consensus seems to be they are a little bright and quite toppy, however I can see that working in a few systems.
We have incorporated ROON and MQA into our latest editions, Roon seems to be a dealers favorite usually going through HQ player.
Personally my playback a long away above these systems, however ROON is a nice solution and pretty bomb proof plus intuitive and a nice GUI and a significance step up from the awful bloated JRiver rubbish.
I would rather use ROON over virtually any other commercially available playback software.
How does it compare for you when playing a genuine high rez download file (or commercially supplied files) against the any of the high rez streams from these companies?
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Post by John on Apr 10, 2017 18:58:14 GMT
I would love to be where Greg, Ali, Jerry and Martin are with this. I really want to like this to the same extent I enjoy my file based system.
For me high rez files are a few steps beyond streaming
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