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Post by MartinT on Mar 19, 2017 15:29:49 GMT
Tony's advice. The Belles monos give off a lot of heat and there is a valve in the Pre. P10 and Isis left on Interesting. My Belles is tepid to the touch, and thankfully my Pass has no valves to wear out
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Post by zippy on Mar 19, 2017 15:40:58 GMT
For continued discussions. .... For me, my enjoyment of classical moved to CDs a long time ago. Me too, for exactly the reason stated, namely lack of surface noise etc. That was many years ago when CD sound quality was not up to that of a good deck. Now I've moved on to home streaming mostly for convenience but no loss of sound quality to my ears.
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Post by Sovereign on Mar 19, 2017 15:59:16 GMT
Project Carbon 3, with up graded cart Understood, that will give you an entry level sound. it was given to me , so there is no complaint. I remember we had a Hifi day at Paul Coupe (RFC) people were facing about with their cheap dacs, I brought along my modified John Westlake MDAC Then Paul put on a Pink Floyed album on his big vinyl rig, utter me it sounded so much better with presence and scale
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Post by John on Mar 19, 2017 17:10:33 GMT
To get the best out of a TT is not cheap file based or CD is a lot cheaper to get to a serious listening level James have you got the DDAC up and running now. That is a very good DAC and you would have to pay serious money to get on the same level of your computer system with that DAC in place
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Post by Sovereign on Mar 19, 2017 17:57:25 GMT
Not yet mate, it's. A long story but the 600plus page diy Audio thread got a bit much for me and I don't have the test gear to test the circuit boards as I go. To just build the DDDAC is simple, which I did and PSUs for it, etc. However the four stack dac I have ended up with is a bit different . Doede's Doramas DDDAC is exceptional but there is an EE in South Korea who flew to Germany to spend a few days with the designer Deode Dorama to see if they can push things further, and apparently they cracked it, although I don't know yet as I need to get my lug holes round it. Anyway, the DDDAC is still in Korea and should be with me in a few weeks or so.
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Post by Rexton on Mar 19, 2017 17:58:43 GMT
I will be staying with vinyl. I have a small CD collection of about 120 cd's that add to occasionally. I have a hot rodded TEAC VRDS 25X that gets used maybe one/twice a month, the vinyl rig gets used daily.
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Post by MartinT on Mar 19, 2017 19:19:52 GMT
CD is my main source these days, with the odd LP and more and more often Spotify Premium for discovery. My main source at work is Spotify.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2017 19:30:01 GMT
I'm with Zippy & MartinT, I only listen to classical on digital formats for the same reasons stated, but I'm really enjoying Vinyl again since deciding to get back into it last year for other genres.
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Post by Sovereign on Mar 19, 2017 20:20:59 GMT
If anyone is passing Maidstone , I would love to try a good TT in my system.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2017 1:14:06 GMT
Digital invariably sounds underwhelming compared with vinyl. If you don't believe this you have poor quality discs and/or a fairly basic TT. Of course a good set up can be expensive and decent digital has got cheaper. High end is still as expensive as a top notch turntable. I'm afraid the mastering of many CDs and SACDs doesn't really cut it with me. Some major artists have never been served well by digital and only way to hear them is original vinyl or a specialist reissue if available. You do have to put up with a fair bit of inconvenience but it is normal for me having grown up with record players going back to my father's 78s. The reproduction possible from the LP record now far exceeds what used to be available. Digital is more a convenience medium than something that provides maximum musical satisfaction. I'm surprised so many claim they are giving up when you consider there is increasing sales of decent turntables. Spotify as a substitute really baffles me.
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Post by John on Mar 20, 2017 6:27:13 GMT
My own view is to get the best out of vinyl you have to spend a awful lot of money. You need to factor in a good arm, cartridge and phono stage. With regards to my own system my server and linear power supply cost me just over £1000 and beats my TT. Yes I could push the TT further with a better cartridge and phonostage but not sure how much I would need to spend to equal the server. I get frustrated with Spotify SQ too, its a big step behind my file based system if I play something like Dream Theater (it just does not have the same sense of scale and depth). Its quite good with less demanding music and great for discovering music.
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Post by jandl100 on Mar 20, 2017 6:49:25 GMT
Digital invariably sounds underwhelming compared with vinyl. If you don't believe this you have poor quality discs and/or a fairly basic TT.... if you believe this then you have poor quality digital playback. I agree with John that massive slammy bass-led music is somewhat poorly served by the 320kbs of Spotify Premium, although imho it ain't half bad. But ime the sonority and delicacy and hear-into resolution of solo classical instruments and moderate sized instrumental ensembles comes across rather well - I've had 'high end' sources and I can honestly say that for me Spot Prem is more than just fine, it sounds fantastic - in my system, with my music and my ears. Actually, it sounds great on full orchestra as well! I'm not all that fussed at all how it sounds on the inherently unnatural sounds of electronic/rock music. The 'accuracy' of that delivery is entirely down to how you prefer it to sound. Whose to say that Spotify Premium is not actually doing an 'accurate' job and that 'higher end' sources aren't in fact adding artifacts that just sound impressive?
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Post by MartinT on Mar 20, 2017 7:07:09 GMT
Digital invariably sounds underwhelming compared with vinyl. If you don't believe this you have poor quality discs and/or a fairly basic TT. Seriously, Paul, that just means you haven't heard digital done well. In no way does my Ayre player sound 'underwhelming'. You're very welcome to come and have a listen if you don't believe me.
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Post by Sovereign on Mar 20, 2017 8:42:55 GMT
Tucked away on the left hand side are the two TTs Paul Coupe (RFC) used that were simply stunning
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2017 10:24:09 GMT
Digital invariably sounds underwhelming compared with vinyl. If you don't believe this you have poor quality discs and/or a fairly basic TT. Seriously, Paul, that just means you haven't heard digital done well. In no way does my Ayre player sound 'underwhelming'. You're very welcome to come and have a listen if you don't believe me. I'm sure it doesn't but that does suggest you have to spend as much as a high end TT. I have certainly improved my CD playback a lot with the intro of the CXC and the underwhelming aspect has more to do with some of the mastering. Even SACD can be done wrong. I am looking to improve the digital side further likely with a Dac / Streamer for convenience and add internet radio primarily. I still find good vinyl has a musicality that digital generally just can't match. I have listened to demos of some stupidly expensive digital incl £100K DCS which failed to deliver in this respect. I don't have a problem with well mastered CD or hi-res as a source it just isn't quite there. Substituting vinyl for streaming however does rather baffle me as I see it as a major downgrade. Then there is the physical involvement in fiddling with record playback as well as collecting aspect (different mastering / pressings / artwork etc). File based digital sort of removes the hobbyist aspect of audio and can lead to hi-fi being more of a background source.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2017 10:35:19 GMT
My own view is to get the best out of vinyl you have to spend a awful lot of money. You need to factor in a good arm, cartridge and phono stage. With regards to my own system my server and linear power supply cost me just over £1000 and beats my TT. Yes I could push the TT further with a better cartridge and phonostage but not sure how much I would need to spend to equal the server. I get frustrated with Spotify SQ too, its a big step behind my file based system if I play something like Dream Theater (it just does not have the same sense of scale and depth). Its quite good with less demanding music and great for discovering music. My visit to Bristol show this year did give me some pointer as to a price point for really satisfying vinyl. The new Planar 3 with the new Rega budget MC and Fono MC would come in around £1500 total similarly a Michell Tecnodec with MC/MM and Dino around the same. The Tecnodec is easily equal to older Gyros and the P3 is a whole new sound level for their products in this price range. That is about equal in cost to a mid market CD player or Dac/Streamer.
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Post by mikeyb on Mar 20, 2017 11:28:05 GMT
My own view is to get the best out of vinyl you have to spend a awful lot of money. You need to factor in a good arm, cartridge and phono stage. With regards to my own system my server and linear power supply cost me just over £1000 and beats my TT. Yes I could push the TT further with a better cartridge and phonostage but not sure how much I would need to spend to equal the server. I get frustrated with Spotify SQ too, its a big step behind my file based system if I play something like Dream Theater (it just does not have the same sense of scale and depth). Its quite good with less demanding music and great for discovering music. My visit to Bristol show this year did give me some pointer as to a price point for really satisfying vinyl. The new Planar 3 with the new Rega budget MC and Fono MC would come in around £1500 total similarly a Michell Tecnodec with MC/MM and Dino around the same. The Tecnodec is easily equal to older Gyros and the P3 is a whole new sound level for their products in this price range. That is about equal in cost to a mid market CD player or Dac/Streamer. Or 7-8 times the cost of Raspberry Pi streaming setup that will outdo the £1500 vinyl, cd or DAC/Streamer setup😉
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Post by John on Mar 20, 2017 11:50:45 GMT
I am used to some pretty high end TT and had a few in my system Good to hear that mid priced and budgets decks have moved on Mike my server outperforms a Pi (Clive has a PI and the same server as me and can confirm) I do think the Pi offers increadble value however
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Post by julesd68 on Mar 20, 2017 12:14:06 GMT
I cannot remember the last time I listened to my cdp.
Believe me that if you spend carefully on second-hand analogue you can get sublime playback.
My MRM Source / Stogi / AT33PTGII cost me approx £1400. I heard a variety of expensive decks yesterday at the Stylus show and wouldn't be rushing to swap my set up for any of them.
The event was a great celebration of the format and the love that some of us have for it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2017 13:23:12 GMT
The Source sounded great the one time I heard it (late 80's?). Certainly I got the impression it outdid an LP12. it was quite expensive at the time and frankly would expect it to better something around £1500 incl arm cartridge and phono stage. Double that at today's prices and you will get something better but likely not by much. At shows I can't usually tell much difference between a £5K vinyl front end and a £20K one in sound. Most of the price difference is likely heavy build and luxury finish.
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