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Post by wankel on Feb 16, 2017 11:01:09 GMT
My daughter is a keen vinylista , being a percussionist she quite rightly dismisses digital where the reproduction of drums etc are concerned. In her words.... "digital audio makes a drum sound like a drum machine " Anyway , she and her boyfriend are soon moving into a place of their own and she would like a system from daddy as a house warming pressy. So , my queri3.... Turntable, Rega , or Project. About £300 max. To go with a pair of KEF XQ1's and an integratedn to be determined and Musical Fidelity phono stage. Cart will be my old but mint Goldy 1042 or my old Orto 2M Black. My first indict is a Rega . Mostly dur to the giant killer arm. Both the RB250 and RB300 are arguably 90% as good sound wise as even the most esoteric out there in my experience. But are the similar priced Projects now as good or better than the Rega's ? Ta .
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Post by MartinT on Feb 16, 2017 11:36:42 GMT
I tend to think that Pro-Ject offer better value for money. The Essential III seems to fit the bill nicely, can be obtained with a phono stage for line output too.
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Post by Slinger on Feb 16, 2017 11:50:29 GMT
When faced with the same sort of choice a couple of years back I did my due diligence and from what I was able to glean from users and reviews spread over the net the equivalent Pro-ject won hands down on build quality for starters. If you're not averse to buying used/refurbished you could probably pick up a Debut Carbon for around the same price as a new Essential III
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 13:06:55 GMT
I haven't heard the Project models other than one at a show and that doesn't count, but I would recommend the Rega models based on experience as they are very good value for money. I have been amazed how good my recently purchased 2011 RP3 is.
If you are willing to buy second hand, then there are tonnes of options open to you.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 13:28:26 GMT
Now if you'd asked me this a year ago, I'd have said Project are cheaply built tat compared to Rega. Having bought an RP1 a few months ago it fell even below the standards of the project deck I'd owned. It also had a misshapen hub and platter and marks on the plinth that should have been picked up by QC. Loads of them have apparently left the factory like this which tells me all I need to know about Rega today. The build quality was also terrible. The materials used fell below any piece of audio equipment I've owned or encounter. Frankly it was so far downmarket from previous Rega's it should never have left the drawing board IMO. After this experience, I will never buy another new Rega product and I won't even buy any of their newer stuff used.
If you ask me about buying new, I'd say both brands lower level offerings are best avoided. Buy a used Rega 2 or 3 instead and enjoy something properly built.
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Post by julesd68 on Feb 16, 2017 14:12:01 GMT
You have obviously educated your daughter well with her choice of source!
As a second-hand alternative a lovely Systemdek IIX with Rega arm could be bought on budget...
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Post by ChrisB on Feb 16, 2017 14:18:04 GMT
One suggestion from me is for an Acoustic Research EB-101 if you fancy going for a secondhand belt drive deck. Cheaper than a new Rega and better sounding than most.
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Post by julesd68 on Feb 16, 2017 14:20:07 GMT
Good call Chris, and a very nice looking deck as well IMO
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Post by ant on Feb 16, 2017 16:45:29 GMT
Just buy an old planar 2. If the new ones are crap, go for an old one with an rb250 on it. Pre rb251, proper rb250 and stick that 1042 in it. Job done, no need to maintain it for them, just plonk and play. Id rather get a proper planar 2 than an new one with a warranty, they are as simple as it gets, a monkey can use one without breaking it.
I like project decks, they are good value for money but if it gets broken its broken full stop. Damage a planar 2 and you can get the spares for them from anywhere.
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Post by daytona600 on Feb 16, 2017 16:59:09 GMT
same choice as my 2 teens & they both went for RPM1 Carbon in red & white easily upgrade path - dust cover , isolation platform , acrylic platter & stylus upgrade
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Post by wankel on Feb 16, 2017 19:49:36 GMT
Interesting posts. Thanks. Especially the one about Rega build quality.
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Post by tony on Feb 17, 2017 17:03:31 GMT
I bought a new RP1 last summer to dip my toe in the vinyl water. The stylus on the carbon cart went walkies so I installed the upgrade kit. Im happy with it...the sonics are excellent for the outlay-noticeable improvement with the upgraded cart.
As mentioned easy upgrade path but the plug and play approach sold it for me. I am happy with it build quality wise and ease of use. Any Rega kit ive heard in my set up Brio amp/Dac have really impressed. I would happily spend my own money on Rega kit and recommend it to friends and family.
Havent heard the project decks but wasnt too impressed when i had a shuftie at them in Richer sounds.
I reckon the RP1 will be in my set up for a couple of decades.
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Post by wankel on Feb 18, 2017 12:19:18 GMT
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Post by robbiegong on Feb 18, 2017 13:43:05 GMT
Would add that which ever way you go (Rega or Project), I wouldn't use the 2M Black. It is a stunning mm in my experience and really deserves a good arm with importantly easy vta adjust. It is very fussy regards set up and nailing vta / sra with it is critical otherwise it just wont sound the stellar cart it is.
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Post by dsjr on Feb 18, 2017 17:45:41 GMT
My take as a retailer, hands on with both makes, which is now receding into the distance admittedly, was that project decks lacked finesse in both finish and engineering, the results being variable. My cousin gave me a little used Debut II to play with and I couldn't believe how noisy (through the stylus to the system) the motor harmonics were. I bought the motor mounting kit they sell and it was improved but not eliminated. Apparently *some* of the dearer models aren't so dissimilar and of the ancient ones, I did like the Pro-ject 2 model, while finding the top models never quite 'made it' in musical terms for whatever reason. As for Rega, this firm was once self-satisfied and insufferably smug, this going directly to Roy Gandy himself imo, but that changed for the better a good few years ago when competition started up. They make thousands of decks a month now and yes, the odd quality control issue got through, BUT, I have to say that any problem at all is immediately resolved with their apologies. These things shouldn't get through to the end user anyway, as the dealer should be setting every one up and doing a check before the client takes it away, as we used to - goes with the 'slurp' we were supposed to be wallowing in - cough -. Planar 1's and previous cheapest models go out through all manner of electrical stores though, so anything can happen. Planar 2's upwards though, should be dealer checked and set up at point of sale in my experience although I don't think this happens much now I was chatting to my old Rega dealer pal this afternoon about this as some negative comments came my way this week about a couple of new Rega decks set up and running on dem at Audio T in Brighton with various 'faults' as observed. Apparently, other forums have had posts about posters' 'friends' with Regas with various complaints - platters not true as they rotate and noisy motors and so on. Sales manager Paul Darwin immediately replied to offer free replacement for any faulty parts and all he needed was the serial number. Apparently, NONE of these supposedly faulty-deck owners has come along to get their decks 'fixed.' Make of that what you will. As someone professionally dealing with Rega from around 1978 to 2004, I have to stand up for their wonderful caring service which ALWAYS puts the end-user first! I didn't mind the sonics either and mid models were sold first with Linn K9's and latterly, Goldring 10** models (1042 in a RB300-Planar 3 was excellent I remember) and if you want beefier/softer, Grado Prestige or Sumiko Pearl, which is so similar in every way to the dear old R100 and A&R E77 we used to sell. I also set up a 2M bronze in an RP3 last year and it sounded really excellent I thought - VTA can be fine tuned with downforce you know, not just messing around with tonearm height - been there and done it many times
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 18:52:24 GMT
I bought my RP1 from Analogue Seduction. I initially offered to take a replacement hub and platter if they could guarantee the replacement parts wouldn't share the same issue. They asked for a full return and refund instead because they could not guarantee even a replacement deck would be without such a fault. I don't know about the new Planar 1 but the RP1 hub and platter were so cheap and nasty, I'd have been unhappy with them if they were on a toy, let alone a piece of engineering. The plinth was also nasty and badly finished. Nothing like the old planar 2 and 3, although you'd never know from pics. You need to see it in the flesh. Anyone having owned a previous Rega deck would have been very disapponted, I feel. BTW I'm not talking of some minor variation here. It was like a bucking bronco! The deck came from a reputable dealer and was new and sealed. With the plinth flaws added into the mix, this item should never have left the factory. I don't believe mine was the only one because I saw many other posts with similar issues and the dealer was also aware of such flaws. With respect, I have every faith in Rega 1978-2004. As for Rega 2017, I Wouldnt touch anything of theirs after my RP1 experience. I'd happily deal with Analogue Seduction again. Just in case anyone's doubting my purchase, here's a screenshot from my EBay purchase history. I didn't retain serial,numbers but I was told the deck would be returned to Rega.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 20:30:10 GMT
I bought my RP1 from Analogue Seduction. I initially offered to take a replacement hub and platter if they could guarantee the replacement parts wouldn't share the same issue. They asked for a full return and refund instead because they could not guarantee even a replacement deck would be without such a fault. I don't know about the new Planar 1 but the RP1 hub and platter were so cheap and nasty, I'd have been unhappy with them if they were on a toy, let alone a piece of engineering. The plinth was also nasty and badly finished. Nothing like the old planar 2 and 3, although you'd never know from pics. You need to see it in the flesh. Anyone having owned a previous Rega deck would have been very disapponted, I feel. BTW I'm not talking of some minor variation here. It was like a bucking bronco! The deck came from a reputable dealer and was new and sealed. With the plinth flaws added into the mix, this item should never have left the factory. I don't believe mine was the only one because I saw many other posts with similar issues and the dealer was also aware of such flaws. With respect, I have every faith in Rega 1978-2004. As for Rega 2017, I Wouldnt touch anything of theirs after my RP1 experience. I'd happily deal with Analogue Seduction again. Just in case anyone's doubting my purchase, here's a screenshot from my EBay purchase history. I didn't retain serial,numbers but I was told the deck would be returned to Rega. I think you might have been expecting too much especially as I know you have owned some really good turntables. The issue you had is certainly common and reported on the Hoffman forum. I can't see it possible to build a decent product for £180 retail in the Uk and I know Gandy uses every engineering trick to achieve a low price. Situation with the P1 may be a lot better. I refer you to the Rega Tour video from Analogue Planet which I have posted on HFS. It appears that a lot more QC goes into the more expensive models and I doubt you would be disappointed with an RP8 or 10. However the Ultra lightweight construction they use for their take on achieving top sound does raise a lot of fit and finish issues to which a lot of attention can be applied on the high cost models. Personally I think you might be better off with a cheap Direct Drive with the USB bits disconnected than a bottom of the range Rega. If you want Planar 3 quality I suggest ponying up for a P3. Anyway I have ordered a Michell Orbe and SME arm as they provide a more solid balance between price and outright engineering quality.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 21:01:00 GMT
The RP1 was initially £229 and i think it went up to £249. Mine was an end of line at £186. It wasn't supposed to be a second. Even at that price i expected a platter that was above Crossley Cruiser level, not below. I'd expected a cut down version of a Rega 2 ( a bit like the old Goldring, NAD and Akai decks made by Rega) but it was exponentially inferior. It was purchased as a deck to get me going abroad but the fault left me no time to organise something else so I just stored my vinyl. If do get another deck, it will probably be another PS-6750 or another vintage Jap DD. They will easily see off a used Planar 3 and cost about the same.
I'm sure you're right about QC and build on Rega's more expensive kit but frankly the RP1 was so shocking to me, I was stunned that Rega would put their name to such a product. I can't see Roy Gandy signing off something of that calibre.
I wanted to post proof of purchase as there appears to be an inference by Rega repeated by DSJR that the problems may not have been genuine. Mine were and they are consistent with other people's reports. If you get something wrong, I feel it's best to admit it and strive to improve rather than try to rubbish consumer feedback.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 11:05:04 GMT
It does look like a rouge batch got out of RP1. Looking at the Fremer video and way parts are supposed to be checked something went very wrong here and some people didn't do their job properly. I wander if there were inherent problems with the design and need to use cheaper materials to achieve a price. It is notable that the RP1 was relatively short lived and first to be replaced with the revived Planar name. I have not seen the same complaints so far about the new model. It is their biggest seller by far and demand is such they are knocking them out in large quantities, which with a hand assembled item can't be good for maintaining quality. Frankly never been a great fan of their turntables but liked what they can achieve with a modest priced arm. Also have had a used Phono for many years with issues eventually likely as a result of pulling tight interconnects on and off. If you check Hoffman you would steer clear of the cheapest Rega and Project models. The previous Carbon (pre DC) had horrendous noise issues that some could not cure even with extensive modifications. I'm pretty wary of the quality of decks that cost much less than £400 these days. At that price vintage may be a better option. I can heartily recommend the PLX 1000 that I bought as a stop gap. It is well above the cheap Regas and Projects in terms of build and sound.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 12:09:35 GMT
I could be completely wrong but I suspect the platter materials were way too thin and may have warped after being boxed. Same with the hub. When you see a pic of the RP1 hub it looks just like any other Rega. In the flesh though it's wafer thin, I am guessing they maybe pushed the boundaries way too far. I just wish they had been open about having a problem. Having lived through similar denials from other firms, it never serves a company well to cast doubt on customer experiences because the truth always comes out. Anyway, I really hope the new deck is better, but I'd still recommend that anyone starting out looks a bit higher up the Rega range to the 2 which offers a proper platter. Or maybe takes your route with the PLX1000.
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