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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 15:15:50 GMT
It's the just listening to the music that is the real test. Small, sometimes tiny, differences penetrate the consciousness like no amount of concentration will reveal. That's why the best test is to relax and listen to familiar material. Sometimes it can take some time but your inner self will know for sure whether you hear a difference or no change. But try not to loose track of reality in the process. Ive heard a lot of very well groomed systems that just do not sound natural at all.
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Post by MartinT on Jan 15, 2017 19:44:59 GMT
But try not to loose track of reality in the process. Ive heard a lot of very well groomed systems that just do not sound natural at all. Agreed, Andr'e. Me too. Some of them well into six figures.
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Post by jandl100 on Jan 16, 2017 13:42:35 GMT
Whoosh. My £90 SR Black fuse has arrived. Blimey, the improvement is not subtle. Putting the old fuse back and the improvements in image focus and presence, resolution, and the sheer improved organisation of the soundstage went away. SR Black back in - and improvements back as well. This is one refund option that will most certainly not be taken up! It's supposed to 'run in', well maybe, I'll see. I've placed the fuse in the wall plug that feeds a mains block that feeds the whole system. Where next for my next one .... ?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 13:52:02 GMT
Too many people are finding the same results with SR fuses for it to be ignored. Maybe those who are throwing around accusations of "conspiracy" and "shilling" ought to take up the 30 day trial instead of blowing their own internal fuses
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Post by MartinT on Jan 16, 2017 14:07:54 GMT
the sheer improved organisation of the soundstage That describes it well for me - I have razor-sharp focus within a big, wide soundstage. Good power management (all of it) really works well in this area and the upgraded fuses contribute to that overall feeling of high resolution in a non-harsh manner.
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Post by MartinT on Jan 16, 2017 14:09:04 GMT
Where next for my next one .... ? Power amp.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 14:18:54 GMT
Never tried upgrading fuses myself yet, but I have been astonished by the difference cables and supports can make so wouldn't rule out trying them just because some people say they are can't possibly make a difference.
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Post by The Brookmeister on Jan 16, 2017 15:38:02 GMT
Too many people are finding the same results with SR fuses for it to be ignored. Maybe those who are throwing around accusations of "conspiracy" and "shilling" ought to take up the 30 day trial instead of blowing their own internal fuses Its simply the principle for many people who live in glass houses. Same as people who use kettle leads on their equipment. While laughable and highly amusing, the doubters will always be that. BTW for some people who never went to school the fuses are £89.95 retail, there is VAT in that price so nett they are £74.96. That means if anyone is accusing someone of ripping them off and making £80 profit its impossible as the govt take £14.99 first of all
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Post by julesd68 on Jan 16, 2017 16:48:41 GMT
Too many people are finding the same results with SR fuses for it to be ignored. Maybe those who are throwing around accusations of "conspiracy" and "shilling" ought to take up the 30 day trial instead of blowing their own internal fuses Same as people who use kettle leads on their equipment. While laughable and highly amusing, the doubters will always be that. I must be misunderstanding you here - are you suggesting that people who use kettle leads are laughable and amusing?
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Post by MikeMusic on Jan 16, 2017 16:51:30 GMT
There is another way of looking at this.
Current (geddit ?) normality is fuses that cost 1p a million. So £90 is insane
Normality for serious music addicts is £90 a fuse. Limiting your pleasure at 1p is silly.
A system that costs a few hundred pounds will almost certainly benefit. One costing £1000s will give far greater results
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 17:26:45 GMT
I'd far rather NOT pay £90 for a fuse, but people are clearly finding improvements that are more than worth that price, and I or anyone can try them without obligation.
Just to address claims of "rip off" pricing, I don't know how these are made, or how expensive/labour intensive the manufacturing process is. I also don't know how much was spent on R&D. Nor do I know or understand how they improve the sound. As far as I know, neither does anybody else, so how can they claim rip-off?
As for claims of some organised conspiracy, I'd love to know who used mind control devices to compel Gazjam to visit Analogue Seduction (Note: NOT MCRU) and buy these devices. I'd be more interested in buying the mind control device than I would the fuses!
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Post by The Brookmeister on Jan 16, 2017 18:11:27 GMT
Same as people who use kettle leads on their equipment. While laughable and highly amusing, the doubters will always be that. I must be misunderstanding you here - are you suggesting that people who use kettle leads are laughable and amusing? Err no!
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Post by The Brookmeister on Jan 16, 2017 18:15:16 GMT
I'd far rather NOT pay £90 for a fuse, but people are clearly finding improvements that are more than worth that price, and I or anyone can try them without obligation. Just to address claims of "rip off" pricing, I don't know how these are made, or how expensive/labour intensive the manufacturing process is. I also don't know how much was spent on R&D. Nor do I know or understand how they improve the sound. As far as I know, neither does anybody else, so how can they claim rip-off? As for claims of some organised conspiracy, I'd love to know who used mind control devices to compel Gazjam to visit Analogue Seduction (Note: NOT MCRU) and buy these devices. I'd be more interested in buying the mind control device than I would the fuses! I thought the same, no one is holding a gun to someone's head and making them click buy it now. Its assumed R+D was free, 1000's of man hours spent testing things, tweaking and modifying until it's ready to go to market with. Hell we wouldn't expect the manufacturer to actually make any money out of this would we?
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Post by dsjr on Jan 16, 2017 18:37:35 GMT
Look. The 'best' fuse is no fuse at all. In other words, either soldering a short length of heavy duty tinned wire in place of the fuse itself, or just removing the fuse-holder completely and bypassing it (safety be damned for the experiment).
This range of fuses appear to be changing something. If you can hear it as it's not in the signal path, it must be measurable surely? What is it doing, and can clip-on ferrites do similar things for a few quid each? the latter question goes ignored and unanswered currently (that's ok, I'm getting used to it now).
It's a known fact in audiophiledom that the mains has all sorts of crap coming in on it and it's measurable too. So what 'we' need to do is measure the mains frequency distortion using a stock NEW fuse and then see what's going on with one of these £90 jobbies. Is this fancy fuse filtering muck out?
Sorry chaps, you can't use your ears and brain alone here, as placebo effects and so on have such a huge influence to our judgements on such matters and we've been here before over all manner of foo add-ons that ultimately proved to be rip-offs or wind-ups for the gullible.
How on earth can a sane person spend '1000's of hours' on a sodding fuse? Do leave off. People are so gullible....... A bit like magic stones placed in strategic places, or little towers to suspend your cables on. Have you lot seen the miles of bog standard mic cables in a typical studio situation just coiled up on the floor - TV studios too behind the scenes? They laugh us out of court, the crap we get involved with - and get a better sound (and great pictures) while they're doing it I reckon... Would they bother with foo fuses? You just HAVE to consider the bigger picture here, sorry again.
Look, I spent years turning fuses round one direction and then another and doing other mad things in my (LP12) lifetime, mats upside down and belts inside out and so on, believing I could help fine tune an LP12 to sound at its very best. Along came a Spacedeck and totally annihilated a late 80's LP12 in all the areas the LP12 was so good at. Kinda finished me off with all this fine-tuning nonsense as the goalposts had been moved so far further forward by using far better gear to start with.
I have to ask, would anyone seriously want to admit they'd spent NINETY QUID on a fuse? SERIOUSLY??
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 18:52:02 GMT
Im like you Dave spent years farting about with such things. So much so that i don't give a shit any more & just switch on the standard stereo with standard bits & bobs, Just listern to music. If i need to replace some crappy wire of re cap an amp cos the parts have seen better days i will buy some good quality replacements but i certainly will not spend silly money on components & such..
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 19:24:02 GMT
Look. The 'best' fuse is no fuse at all. In other words, either soldering a short length of heavy duty tinned wire in place of the fuse itself, or just removing the fuse-holder completely and bypassing it (safety be damned for the experiment).
This range of fuses appear to be changing something. If you can hear it as it's not in the signal path, it must be measurable surely? What is it doing, and can clip-on ferrites do similar things for a few quid each? the latter question goes ignored and unanswered currently (that's ok, I'm getting used to it now).
It's a known fact in audiophiledom that the mains has all sorts of crap coming in on it and it's measurable too. So what 'we' need to do is measure the mains frequency distortion using a stock NEW fuse and then see what's going on with one of these £90 jobbies. Is this fancy fuse filtering muck out?
Sorry chaps, you can't use your ears and brain alone here, as placebo effects and so on have such a huge influence to our judgements on such matters and we've been here before over all manner of foo add-ons that ultimately proved to be rip-offs or wind-ups for the gullible.
How on earth can a sane person spend '1000's of hours' on a sodding fuse? Do leave off. People are so gullible....... A bit like magic stones placed in strategic places, or little towers to suspend your cables on. Have you lot seen the miles of bog standard mic cables in a typical studio situation just coiled up on the floor - TV studios too behind the scenes? They laugh us out of court, the crap we get involved with - and get a better sound (and great pictures) while they're doing it I reckon... Would they bother with foo fuses? You just HAVE to consider the bigger picture here, sorry again.
Look, I spent years turning fuses round one direction and then another and doing other mad things in my (LP12) lifetime, mats upside down and belts inside out and so on, believing I could help fine tune an LP12 to sound at its very best. Along came a Spacedeck and totally annihilated a late 80's LP12 in all the areas the LP12 was so good at. Kinda finished me off with all this fine-tuning nonsense as the goalposts had been moved so far further forward by using far better gear to start with.
I have to ask, would anyone seriously want to admit they'd spent NINETY QUID on a fuse? SERIOUSLY?? You could probably say the same about mains cables, yet many people hear clear differences. As for placebo, if you want to go insulting people's intelligence, I can think of another forum where you'd be more at home, given the insults already thrown at Gazjam. I don't care what mechanism is at play or what the fuse is doing. There are many things we do not yet understand or cannot measure. Gazjam called it like he heard it AFTER being asked to try it against a copper bar. He head the fuse as better. Nobody knows what the feck these things do, so why all the insults? Do you condone all the nastiness and accusations? As for R&D, can you tell me more about the manufacturing process and how graphene is employed? Or maybe what other materials are used? No? Well how the feck do you know about costs? To me your post is yet another insult to people who use their ears. Why not just let other people have their opinions even if you disagree?
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Post by ChrisB on Jan 16, 2017 19:31:09 GMT
Look. The 'best' fuse is no fuse at all. In other words, either soldering a short length of heavy duty tinned wire in place of the fuse itself, or just removing the fuse-holder completely and bypassing it (safety be damned for the experiment).
Before I go on Dave, please note my earlier stance on magic fuses. Right then. 'The experiment' is irrelevant, except to settle an argument which is raging on another forum. Who wants to short a fuse which has been placed there by a manufacturer for safety purposes? Not me or many others, I'd suggest. It's also something that we wouldn't and don't recommend on The Audio Standard. So, the fact is that, whether someone believes the fuse is needed or not, it is part of the design and, therefore, in the circuit for better or worse. So, that being the case, what's the point in your experiment?
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Post by ChrisB on Jan 16, 2017 19:35:54 GMT
Can I remind people that we don't want arguments from other forums brought here. It's bad enough to bring your own argument, but worse if you bring someone else's!
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Post by dsjr on Jan 16, 2017 20:26:40 GMT
I'm not bringing any arguments anywhere. The point is, the best thing is no fuse at all! Fuses are put there as some offer of protection, although time and time again in forty five years now, Murphey's law kicks in and gear protects the fuse by blowing up first!
Mains leads - yes, I have heard differences and the one I recommend is the Mark Grant one. Happy to recommend this (I don't know Mark at all other than as a customer) because it uses decent standard parts, a metre 13A-IEC is around fifty quid and is well put together, and mine has been in situ with occasional disconnection 'to clean the pins' for some years now. It was better to me than a home made one made with the best parts I could buy for sensible money. The workroom system is different and a BMU does similar things for me. I use ferrites everywhere, left over from when I lived in Lu'on (sniff) and the mains was mostly horrible.
P.S. The 'experiment' is perfectly viable and important to this claim of the £90 one being better. Please credit me with some independent intelligence here, as the suggestion is a valid one. If having NO FUSE gives one kind of sonic flavour and inserting the fuse causes that character to change, then the fuse is doing something and this needs proper investigation, surely? If you feel it's irrelevant, as my suggestion of ferrites seems to be, then fine, it's up to you.
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Post by The Brookmeister on Jan 16, 2017 20:27:14 GMT
Can I remind people that we don't want arguments from other forums brought here. It's bad enough to bring your own argument, but worse if you bring someone else's! Well said.
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