|
Post by Slinger on Nov 27, 2016 17:00:40 GMT
I feel a new thread coming on, perhaps entitled "Sovereign's Vinyl Path and how you rotten sods are now making me spend more money with your bloody suggestions." Not exactly snappy or catchy as a title I know. but I do think it might capture the flavour of the contents nicely.
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Nov 27, 2016 17:08:26 GMT
That's what happens when you combine a component that is fine but not quite good enough with an internet forum
|
|
|
Post by Sovereign on Nov 27, 2016 18:05:58 GMT
OK good news, we have music. I removed my DIY Pre amp and replaced it with an unfinished Wonfor DIY Pre which has it's own phono stage, but its the phono stage bit that I have yet to finish. Anyway, putting a different pre into the system along with the Cambridge Audio phono stage has produced music. The only album I have of familiar music is U2 Rattle and Hum. Sound wise there is plenty of detail but I seem to have lost a warmth and bass that I had with the modified Bearsford that I am running right now while I keep working on my DDDAC. I wondered if the lack of the and bottom end was due to a poor 'pressing' or what ever it is you vinyl heads call it. Along with the TT was four boxes full of classical vinyl that I am not familiar with at all but I thought I would give it a go hoping for a better sound. This classical vinyl seemed to be probably twice the weight of the U2 album. In the short time I had left all I could find were albums principally of strings and not much bottom end, so I will have to fish through what I have or pop into town tomorrow to see if I can find something else that familiar with. On a cosmetic note I really like the way it looks. I really like the black thick acrylic platter, very smart.
|
|
|
Post by John on Nov 27, 2016 18:14:15 GMT
To get the bass you used too James it would cost a good bit more money but glad you got sound. Colin phono section might be another improvement and getting a better cartridge will help with the bass. But if going using a belt drive you really need a heavier platter (speed stabilty is very important) As we said only so far you be able to push this TT
|
|
|
Post by ant on Nov 27, 2016 18:47:38 GMT
Stick something better than the om cart on it and you'll get much better bass.
Firstly though some tweaking can help. Vta can play a part, if the cart looks like it is nose down, it will mean that the vta is too high. I don't know if it is adjustable on this deck, but ideally the arm tube wants to be parallel to the record. If it looks like it is sloping downwards to the front it's too high and you can get a lack of bass performance, sloping up towards the front, you can get a lack of treble and muddy bass.
A very simple way to change this if it is non adjustable and nose down, is to put a record you don't care about on the platter, then place the one you want to play on the top. Effectively use the first record as a shim, this will alter the vertical tracking angle. If it's nose up, is more difficult as the arm pillar needs raising up. If it works, get hold of a thicker platter mat.
Cheers ant
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2016 19:41:06 GMT
With a large number of decks, powerful bass depends on what you sit them on. I realise your options are currently limited but it's something to bear in mind if you do get the chance to experiment. I'm somewhat guessing here but I'd imagine something like an IKEA Lack table would reap rewards. Finding space for one may be an issue but at least they won't break the bank.
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Nov 27, 2016 21:13:50 GMT
Agreed - siting the deck is very important for good sound.
|
|
|
Post by John on Nov 27, 2016 21:34:11 GMT
From the turntable I say isolation and speed stablity are critical to really good sounds Then a good arm, cartridge and phonostage all matter as well.
|
|
|
Post by dsjr on Nov 28, 2016 9:25:45 GMT
The OM10 is a scrappy thing, always has been and it was a sonic killer of Dual 505's I remember, which really needed something gentler to bring the best out in these later Duals. The 2M Red is little better I fear, as they're related under the body I believe. The OM20 stylus is far more refined and very pleasant and musical, but it costs the same or more as a complete Shure 97XE, which is a universal recommendation of genuine ability at this particular price point - here we go on the journey/money pit....... The Sumiko Pearl is more old fashioned, putting emphasis on bass and midrange punch and with a more restrained hf (not as stodgy as I remember Grado Prestige models sounding).
Siting of lower mass solid plinth decks like this is absolutely crucial and I'm afraid you can't just plonk this deck on a table or low mass cabinet and expect perfection. A suitable chopping board sitting on squash balls may help and I stand my Rega RP3 'Mule' on three Audioquest sorbothane feet from yesteryear and this helps it enormously in bass and midrange reproduction clarity (current models may not benefit the same way as the plinth materials and tonearm-main bearing coupling is rather more refined nowadays)
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Nov 28, 2016 9:39:27 GMT
Siting of lower mass solid plinth decks like this is absolutely crucial and I'm afraid you can't just plonk this deck on a table or low mass cabinet and expect perfection. A suitable chopping board sitting on squash balls may help and I stand my Rega RP3 'Mule' on three Audioquest sorbothane feet from yesteryear and this helps it enormously in bass and midrange reproduction clarity Yep, I've used a large butcher's block and granite shelf to good effect at different times, sat on sorbothane pucks. This isolates the deck nicely from mechanical vibration and provides some damping, too.
|
|
|
Post by ant on Nov 28, 2016 9:45:24 GMT
Ive used a ruddy great slab of slate for the last 10 years to site all the (too many apparently) decks ive had. Not on any sort of isolation feet, just the slab directly onto the shelf/ whatever the deck has been sat on. There are many many ways to site a deck, wall shelves being my personal choice, though mainly to keep them away from the little fingers of the kids. Not such a problem these days.
|
|
|
Post by Sovereign on Nov 28, 2016 9:57:36 GMT
Thanks so much for your help here chaps. There is a lot of info here for me to get stuck into. I will keep you all posted.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2016 14:24:43 GMT
I've no doubt we will all learn from your experiences. There's always something to learn when it comes to turntable isolation, and the differences aren't hard to detect.
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Nov 28, 2016 14:34:08 GMT
There's always something to learn when it comes to turntable isolation, and the differences aren't hard to detect. Agreed, I've tried loads of combinations of spring/cone/sorbothane supports and shelves before I arrived at the solution I use now.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2016 8:52:52 GMT
I solved it by putting the TT in next door garage, but when he came home from his hols he ran it over the Digital Freak.
|
|
|
Post by Sovereign on Dec 7, 2016 13:22:38 GMT
Ok chaps, bit of an update. As you can see I have put the TT on the glass top of my amp on some oak cone feet. I think it looks quite good, not a permanent home but a cool temporary position. Thanks to Ant, I've been looking at how level the arm is and l've adjusted it both ways and he sound seems to be roughly the same. I'm not as emotionally attached to the idea of placing a record on the deck and watching it spin as some are , but I can see where you are coming from. The sound is quite good, not bad at all. I would like to buy another record to see what that is like. I find it hard to ignore all the crackle and pops that are quite loud, but I may change the cart in time to see what difference that makes. Slinger, not to worry I won't be spending thousands on this medium, I would really like to hear a real top end TT in my system, if anyone is offering, to see if the end goal is worth it or not. I must admit I do like the idea of having a TT in my system, and when you stand back and look at my system as a whole it fits in well.
|
|
|
Post by julesd68 on Dec 7, 2016 13:34:46 GMT
In terms of crackle and pops, yes some carts are better at handling this than others, but if you really get into the vinyl lark you'll find an RCM absolutely essential of course. It's amazing how much supposedly near mint second-hand vinyl can be cleaned up. I also tend just to buy from sellers that I know and trust with their gradings. Then there's new vinyl of which there is a huge range now and getting bigger by the day ... Look forward to seeing how you get on!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2016 13:37:33 GMT
With a better deck and cart, you get a huge reduction in vinyl surface noise. They seem to reproduce more of what's in the groove and less of everything else.
|
|
|
Post by Sovereign on Dec 7, 2016 14:00:08 GMT
What would be a good, NOT too expensive cart to buy?
If anyone is interested I will be selling off four boxes full of classical vinyl from the 1960s
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Dec 7, 2016 14:01:57 GMT
I find it hard to ignore all the crackle and pops that are quite loud, but I may change the cart in time to see what difference that makes. Vinyl noise is largely down to the quality of a) the deck and its location; b) the phono stage and how well it recovers from transients and c) the quality of the cartridge and stylus. When you get it all working well, noise is pretty much absent when the music starts.
|
|