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Post by pinkie on Nov 17, 2016 8:31:02 GMT
Being obsessive and having it rammed down our throats is damaging the important message for all music lovers. The important message is: cleaning your mains brings rewards in improved sound quality. Being safe helps, too! Yes. I don't consider myself obsessed with mains. I leave it alone and enjoy my music without trying to look to mains fiddling to improve it. You - Martin, James, Mike and others are obsessed with mains as a way to make your music sound better. My issue is not with mains particularly. Nor even safety particularly. It is people talking nonsense - frequently just to prevent any rational discussion of specifics interfering with their core mantra Let me give you an example of "never let the truth get in the way of a good story" Posted by Greg today at 1:40am Oh well, mains.........Pinkie is a dog with a bone........ whichever forum you like, 'cos he's been there, done that and got banned from a few in the process. Mains obsession is an illness. What a blessing not to be so afflicted. I am a current member of PFM, DIY Hifi, AOS, Hifi Wigwam and this forum (maybe others I can't remember, and evidently don't frequent). I was banned from and reinstated to AOS for something which had nothing to do with mains. I was banned from HFS because - well, Dunn is Dunn and has a problem with being wrong. Mains controversy has only arisen here and on HFS cos Dunn thought talking sense was an attack on NVA - even though that sense is universally recognised by the likes of Phillip Giddings and Phillip Newell - both of whom stress the need for the very safety considerations I have talked about on their installations. This forum cherry picks - it takes the "these systems CAN be useful" bit from these experts, and just gets defensive and repeats mantras which do not address the technical points being made on the "BUT it is important to remember these safety aspects" advice from these experts. Of course my view of mains is mainstream on a forum like Wigwam - with many more members and posts. It is mainstream at SOS . It is worth noting that when John refers to the use of mains treatments (particularly balanced power) in studios - where it is installed and not a box on a wire - there are strict rules for safety. I won't repeat links to these. They don't suit the mantra of "just worship my mains toys like I do". Perhaps it is natural we should gravitate to where we feel at home. Mains obsession is an illness. - I heartily agree. Just leave it alone and use it the way it is meant to be. I just love the idea that Martin goes to all this trouble to clean his mains and then wires his system ground to the neutral leg of the noisy mains supply. It reflects the depth of understanding of the subject. |
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Post by Sovereign on Nov 17, 2016 8:56:54 GMT
My RCD is still up for grabs if anyone wants it, make sure it's installed and certified correctly though 🙈🙈
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Post by MartinT on Nov 17, 2016 12:06:44 GMT
I just love the idea that Martin goes to all this trouble to clean his mains and then wires his system ground to the neutral leg of the noisy mains supply. It reflects the depth of understanding of the subject. Erm, I thought I had made it clear that my house mains bonds the earth to neutral - there are only two cables coming in. My qualified electrician said this is quite common and demonstrated to me that the earth impedance is low. The bonding goes to ground every few houses along the poles. He also told me that this is a better quality earth than even a large grid array, let alone a spike, on my premises and that I should leave it as-is and not install a separate earth (which, in itself, presents some dangers that I am not prepared to entertain). The way the house is wired is hardly my doing! How my house is wired in no way "reflects the depth of [my] understanding of the subject". It's these nasty little comments that you introduce into your voluminous posts that really get my goat. On what basis do you have the right to comment on my depth of understanding? State your credentials and (preferably) some qualifications. Otherwise do us all a favour and shut up. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2016 13:01:40 GMT
You have a PME system?
If so there should be a label near the meter/distribution board.
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Post by MartinT on Nov 17, 2016 13:05:19 GMT
Yes I do, the certificate (original and for my radial installation) confirms it and there is a label.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2016 13:08:40 GMT
As far as the installation of the circuits into the distribution board is concerned, the same rules apply. You still have an earth to take care of leakage currents, so your RCDs still work.
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Post by MartinT on Nov 17, 2016 13:31:18 GMT
Yep - they're all tested and working. However, it's ELCBs that require an earth, RCDs work on differential current.
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Post by pinkie on Nov 17, 2016 13:40:04 GMT
As far as the installation of the circuits into the distribution board is concerned, the same rules apply. You still have an earth to take care of leakage currents, so your RCDs still work. You are correct Kevin. Although strictly "earth" is irrelevant in dealing with the leakage currents. What you have taking care of the leakage currents is a "safety ground". A path to complete the circuit, which is not part of the normal supply**, which can be connected to equipment cases to enable any live voltage on them to create a short and blow a fuse. The RCD doesn't need any safety ground connection (any green and yellow wire) in the house to work (hence they also protect class 2 devices without such a wire). The safety ground connection doesn't need to be to earth for the regular class I device to be protected. You could bond safety ground to neutral in the building and, OTHER THAN FOR THE NEED FOR HIGH VOLTAGE PROTECTION (ie lightening strikes) there is no need for the connection to be to bonded to earth at all. Bonding building safety ground to neutral at the entrance of the supply is quite common in the states (although that connection is in turn bonded to earth - often with a local earth spike). The connection to earth is not directly relevant to either of these safety functions. It is of course relevant in the case of our TT installations, as the earth is the only path completing the circuit between the safety ground ( a spike at our houses) and the neutral bonding ( a much much bigger spike at the supply station). ** during WW2 these were often combined in the house to save copper wire. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2016 13:47:56 GMT
Yep - they're all tested and working. However, it's ELCBs that require an earth, RCDs work on differential current. For a differential in current, as you know it needs to have supply and return different, so leakage to earth is the more pleasant way of doing this. The other way can hurt. |
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Post by MartinT on Nov 17, 2016 15:00:22 GMT
Agreed!
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Post by AlanS on Nov 17, 2016 15:52:37 GMT
I took the ignore off the pink members posts and find he has blathered 28000 words in this thread up to this point. You are very patient and tolerant Martin. Guess it boosts post counts for the site.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2016 17:12:51 GMT
The regenerator was picked up on the way home from work, so I plugged it in to perform the safety test.
Leakage current test performed at an indicated 20mA and the same RCD tripped as before.
Just spinning a disc now, and the system sounds good. Better than without it? I have no idea yet....
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Post by Sovereign on Nov 17, 2016 17:21:22 GMT
Thanks for the feedback wonky. Sit back and enjoy.
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Post by Mr Whippy on Nov 17, 2016 17:29:47 GMT
And was it a surprise?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2016 17:41:16 GMT
It is nice to know it works, as the regenerator converts the AC to DC and back to AC again (for the components to convert it back into DC).
Nobody was really able to answer my original question as to the masking of the RCD.
Knowing that the safety is not compromised, I am happy to give it a try.
The other point to note is that my power amp no longer hums without the DC blocker in place.
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Post by pre65 on Nov 17, 2016 17:55:05 GMT
Given that a regenerator converts incoming mains to DC, and then back to "pure" AC, I will ask this question again. (no response before)
Has anyone tried using a PSW Inverter (pure sine wave) to power their Hi-fi kit ?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2016 18:04:31 GMT
Nope.
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Post by Mr Whippy on Nov 17, 2016 18:06:21 GMT
Whoever first had the idea of using a regenerator-type device on their hi-fi, should, I think, have their testicals removed.
He's caused nothing but aggro on hi-fi forums.
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Post by pre65 on Nov 17, 2016 18:08:20 GMT
Whoever first had the idea of using a regenerator-type device on their hi-fi, should, I think, have their testicals removed. He's caused nothing but aggro on hi-fi forums. What if it was a female ?  |
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Post by Mr Whippy on Nov 17, 2016 18:18:37 GMT
I think a female would probably have more sense.
And it is a (largely) male preserve.
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